Vermette for Salo rumour??

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jchockey
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Post by jchockey »

Farhan Lalji wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:Wouldn't do it for Bieksa but Salo would be fair.

In fact I'll be pissed if MG deals Bieksa......hopefully the "club" has learned something from the Peca deal. You *NEED* those guys.
I agree with Clam 100%. Here are a few question that I have however.

1) IF Vermette were traded here, does Vermette become the new 3rd line shut down center, or does Kesler remain there?

2) Can BOTH Kesler and Vermette play on the 3rd line? (i.e. Burrows-Kesler-Vermette).

3) Who do you think has more offensive potential? Kesler or Vermette?

4) Is Vermette just as good at being a shut down forward as Kesler?
1 - Vermette is better off playing left wing, and he would fit well either on Kesler's wing or on the second line. I'd much rather prefer Kesler on the third line. I think putting him on a scoring line might get him away from doing what he does best, which is shutting down opponents.

2. Yes, and that would be a hell of a duo.

3. Vermette, no contest. Vermette has been an offensive force at every single level he's played in, except in the NHL, although he did put up a very respectable 53 points last year. Even in college Kesler was not known to be an offensively-dependable player.

4. No, Kesler is by far the best Canuck I've ever seen at doing what he does. Chubarov is up there too, but he didn't have Kesler's foot speed or tenacity.

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ClamRussel
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Post by ClamRussel »

Perhaps the thinking is for Vermette to play w/ Sundin & Demitra? ....further enticing the big Swede to sign.

Vermette-Sundin-Demitra
Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Burrows-Kesler-Pyatt
***-Johnson-Hordichuck

leaving one spot for Cowan, Shannon, Wellwood, Raymond, Krog & Pettinger to battle it out.....if those 2 are aquired & Cowan isn't bought out then 3 of those names would be in Winnipeg.
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Post by Mikodat »

Well... my 2 cents.. disagree with clam 100%... Bieksa has not proven himself to be a top dman yet... and there is no indication he will. Peca was a proven center. One h of a difference... even with all the time last.. Salo has proven himself year after year as a top dman.. both defensively and offensively.. Bieksa has yet to prove anything except as a crowd pleasing tough guy... He has never been responsible defensively and his spct.. is way below Salo's or Ohlunds.. You guys watch too much TV and listen to too much BS on talk radio.. maybe you should look at the stats.. My call is Bieksa contract was the biggest mistake Dave Nonis made.. course its the entertainment business and maybe thats what the fans want... they pay the freight .. But just for once I'd like the Canucks to keep the best players ( not the most popular ) and take a run at the Cup .. :( ...
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puckhead
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Post by puckhead »

Province article stating that Gillis had turned down a straight-up Bieksa for Vemette deal.

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/ ... 548189b386
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Post by hoopsjunky »

ClamRussel wrote:Perhaps the thinking is for Vermette to play w/ Sundin & Demitra? ....further enticing the big Swede to sign.

Vermette-Sundin-Demitra
Sedin-Sedin-Bernier
Burrows-Kesler-Pyatt
***-Johnson-Hordichuck

leaving one spot for Cowan, Shannon, Wellwood, Raymond, Krog & Pettinger to battle it out.....if those 2 are aquired & Cowan isn't bought out then 3 of those names would be in Winnipeg.
Plus, the defense is pretty much intact:

Ohlund-Salo
Mitchell-Edler
Krajicek-Davison/Baumgartner/McIver

(or Ohlund-Edler/Mitchell-Bieksa)

That's one sick, sick lineup.

My preference - they move Salo. I love the guy and I think he's one of the best when he's healthy. But 1) he's never healthy for a full season and 2) he's older. I'd take a chance that Edler develops into Salo's role and Bieksa returns to 2006/2007 form. Ohlund, Mitchell, Edler and Bieksa is still a pretty darn good top-four.

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Canuck-One
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Post by Canuck-One »

I must be getting old and grumpy. I read Farhan talking about putting an offensive player (Vermette) into a defensive position and I scratch my head, what is he talking about for goodness sakes.

Then I read a little further and hoopsjunky tells me our D is sick. Geesh I thought it was one our strengths.

Most players have a style of play that is suited to either the offense or the defense and to put players outside of their skill set is why a lot of these guys are considered failures.

We have just signed a guy (Krog) whose whole game is based on offense yet everytime he was brought up to play in the show he's been cast as a 4th line checker/energy guy. I think that's why he has never made it on a regular basis.

As for all of these trades...as much as I would like Vermette, it isn't going to happen. We are circling the field and will continue to do so until Sundin's mind is made up.

The only trades that will happen after that will be coming out of camp to lower our cap situation, so look for Raymond and ! more young player to be on the roster on opening night.

Of course if Sundin doesn't sign then it's a whole new scenario.

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Post by Badfish »

Mikodat wrote:You guys watch too much TV and listen to too much BS on talk radio.. maybe you should look at the stats...
Maybe you should get your head out of the stats and watch some actual hockey! You can find stats to justify any argument. His shot % is lower? Dear god, trade him now. Again, after watching 70+ games of Bieksa in his first season, I full-heartedly disagree. He has never given any indication he'll be a top 4 dman? You must be the only guy in the hockey world who thinks so, as most people (In Vancouver and outside it, including several GM's) seem to regard him as either our best bargaining chip or a non-trader. Other teams don't want him because he's a fan favorite, they want him for what he's shown on the ice.

And for the record, I don't have TV, and don't get Vancouver radio on the Island. I just watch allot of hockey. And don't read into stats :)

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ClamRussel
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Post by ClamRussel »

Mikodat wrote:Well... my 2 cents.. disagree with clam 100%... Bieksa has not proven himself to be a top dman yet... and there is no indication he will. Peca was a proven center. One h of a difference... even with all the time last.. Salo has proven himself year after year as a top dman.. both defensively and offensively.. Bieksa has yet to prove anything except as a crowd pleasing tough guy... He has never been responsible defensively and his spct.. is way below Salo's or Ohlunds.. You guys watch too much TV and listen to too much BS on talk radio.. maybe you should look at the stats.. My call is Bieksa contract was the biggest mistake Dave Nonis made.. course its the entertainment business and maybe thats what the fans want... they pay the freight .. But just for once I'd like the Canucks to keep the best players ( not the most popular ) and take a run at the Cup .. :( ...
Come again? Peca had proven *nothing* other than he could take cheap open ice hits on star players after the play.....something that did please me as he really showed boldness for a rookie. When the Nux traded him he had only played 37 NHL games split over 2 seasons and was just on the verge of making the jump from the minor leagues.

How is that proven?

....and yet Bieksa isn't?!?

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Post by dr.dork »

You know, I think Mikodat is a little over the top, but he does have a point. Bieksa, at this point in his career, is a little overrated and overpaid. Not to the extent that Mikodat espouses, but he is certainly well behind Ohlund, Salo and Mitchell.

And he is probably more tradeable than Edler simply because Edler is so cheap. I would take Bieksa over Edler, but if I needed to free up 2-3 million or trade for a forward Bieksa is expendable. (But I don't want a hasbeen coming back, I want offensive potential for defensive potential [Bieksa]).

On the other hand, we really missed his contributions offensively when he was hurt last year and he never showed his first year skills when he came back from injury. I think part of that is due to injury and part of it is due to him believing his own hype. He needs to quit skating around trying to look cool and just make the bloody play.

In any case, a question for you Miko, where does Bieksa fit (currently) on the Canucks defensive depth chart ??

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jchockey
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Post by jchockey »

The jury's still out on Bieksa, he has in really played in one full season, and we haven't had a good look at him to see if his play justifies his contract. I thought throwing $3.75m at Bieksa was a bit much, and I'd love to stand corrected, but I'm not.

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Post by Badfish »

You know I was thinking today, Bieksa can't be "overpaid" yet because he hasn't even gotten a paycheck from his 3.75 mil yet. last season he was still making under a mil. If you're going to judge the guy compared to his salary, at least let him get a few games in under his new salary first :)

Also, if we're going to compare him to his salary, lets also compare him to other players around the league, not just on our roster. Is Wade Redden almost twice the player BXA is? I think after this season we'll be looking at his 3.75 as a pretty good value.

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Post by Linden Is God »

Badfish wrote:You know I was thinking today, Bieksa can't be "overpaid" yet because he hasn't even gotten a paycheck from his 3.75 mil yet. last season he was still making under a mil. If you're going to judge the guy compared to his salary, at least let him get a few games in under his new salary first :)

Also, if we're going to compare him to his salary, lets also compare him to other players around the league, not just on our roster. Is Wade Redden almost twice the player BXA is? I think after this season we'll be looking at his 3.75 as a pretty good value.
Easy comparable right now would be The Finger.
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