When it comes to TREVOR LINDEN...

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ClamRussel
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When it comes to TREVOR LINDEN...

Post by ClamRussel » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:42 pm

Coach Vigneault is an idiot!

Seriously, what the hell is the problem here?!?

He clearly can still play.....last year when he was FINALLY put on the PP he ended up w/ 12 goals........he was our BEST forward & 2nd best player in last year's playoffs......he is CLEARLY our best shooter on the SHOOTOUT.....he's a big body & can still hit.

So his hands aren't what they used to be and he's lost a step.....he still doesn't deserve to sit this many games out.....back to back after a LOSS????

Brutal.

Even if he did totally suck & was fairly useless (which he isn't).....the shootout is for a POINT.....you dress a guy who is almost guaranteed to get you a ***POINT***!!!!!

Not only is he our best shooter, at 4 for 6 he's one of the best in the entire NHL.

He's our Jussi Jokinen.

At least he can get a shot off *and* hit the NET!

Frickin' stupidity.....argh!

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mattola
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Post by mattola » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:43 pm

i cant comment on this as it makes zero sense when Jeff Cowan gets the games he gets when he clearly costs us time and time again..

what the fuck

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Post by Cookie La Rue » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:50 pm

That's something i totally don't understand too. I tend to guess Trevor has maybe some injury or illness, if not......unforgiven.
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Post by randymeeks » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:59 pm

Come on guys. Do you honestly think that this team would have won more games over these past few losses if Linden were in the line-up? Outside of (maybe) today's shootout loss to the Panthers, where it may have been handy to have him in the shootout, I don't see how he would have been a factor to the point where any of these losses would have changed to wins.
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Post by Cookie La Rue » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:11 pm

On the other side, do you honestly think it could have gone even more worse with Linden ?
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Post by whistler » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:10 am

We know Linden has heart...that's what fuels him in the playoffs.

Get him on the ice in an offensive role and see if he remembers how to bring grit to the position.

But he needs to get in the scrum like Smyth, not off to the side of the net.
His reflexes don't seem to be fast enough anymore for the redirects.

And he is definitely our best shootout specialist.
If we're riding Luongo we're going to need to win a lot of shootouts.

Poor AV.
His choices must seem a bit limited.

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Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:05 am

whistler wrote:Poor AV.
His choices must seem a bit limited.
Sometimes I think the limitations are more due to stubbornness, favouratism and self-induced stupidity than they are a lack of talent from which to choose. Not saying that we are loaded with talent, but when you consistently choose the likes of Ritchie, Cowan and Isbister (all career pluggers) over Linden, Jaffrey, Hansen, Shannon etc. (Veteran with better hands, skills, instincts than the previously mentioned group will ever have, and youth that actually have some potential for improvement and possibly even, God forbid, putting that black thing called a puck in the net) to the detriment of the team, it would seem to indicate that the players aren't the only problem.
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Post by whistler » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:54 pm

I too would like to see Linden back on the ice.

To me, Linden is THE face of the franchise.
This is his last shot at the cup.

He's been sitting in the press box watching his team fritter away that chance.

The question is what he would be willing to do about it.

Would he be willing to play with an edge?
Would he fly on the ice?
Would he crash the net?
Would he bang bodies?
Would he drop the gloves when the other guys take offense then return to play rough some more?
Can Linden find a way to play at that level in the regular season when the year is on the line?
Because that's what we need...the whole team to play with an edge.
And we need someone to lead the way.
It may not make any sense to save Linden for the post season.
We've been playing nice and it looks like an early exit.

But the truth is, the Linden I've seen on the ice so far this year isn't really all that impressive.
If I were the coach and didn't have a sentimental reason for playing him I wouldn't consider him an impact player either.
I don't know if it's because Trevor no longer has the raw ability or if he's trying too hard to execute the coach's defensive game plan when he does get some ice time.

But something has to change.
We're truly desperate but it seems everyone we play is showing more desperation than we are.

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Post by Ronning's Ghost » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:58 pm

Carrying a theme forward from the 'Getting time to fire Vigneault' thread, remember how, when Vigneault first arrived, one of things we were all so excited about was how the era of favouritism and double-standards was over, and all players were going to be judged on their performance ?

Maybe over-playing favourites, and under-playing useful players whom you don't like as well, is just the first great temptation a coach faces once he has established himself with a team. Power corrupts, even in hockey. Maybe the best a fan can hope for is the the coach's favourites will also be his best palyers, so that when Cherry "overplayed" Bobby Orr, it really didn't hurt his team.

It even makes a kind of sense that most coaches would have a soft spot for the talentless, hard-working plugger willing to do whatever it takes to get ice time, because that's the kind of player most coaches were during their playing careers. While it might seem that this would predict that Gretzky would tend to favour talented scorers who eschew physical play, I think that Gretzky is actually keenly aware of the role Dave Cemento played in his career, and will eventually strike an effective balance in Phoenix. I also think coaches who were great players may be above trying to justify their own playing careers by over-emphasizing the role that made their hockey careers possible. Robinson fits this prediction, but Lemaire less so. Another reason I'd like to see Larionov try his hand at coaching.

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Post by Fred » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:25 pm

I like Linden and he still has more talent than most of the players on the 4th line. But that's not what an AV team is. He likes 2 production lines and two in your face lines. Unfortunitly Linden offers neither of these commodities to surplant the players on those lines.

AV also likes a strong "D" to play his system or style.

So far he can't get a second line up and running partially because Morrison is injured ( he's more important than most of us realized) and definitly because he can't marshall all his defencemen togther. And maybe it's time he sat Naslund up in the press box. I can't wait to see what DN does with his spare cap room this summer. Give Naslund a scouting job. That's a lot of money he's draining from a better team
cheers

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Post by antro » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:51 pm

Fred wrote:So far he can't get a second line up and running partially because Morrison is injured ( he's more important than most of us realized)
i agree...Morrison is a tremendous backchecker, and moves the puck well...it's kinda like there's just too many things missing from the team core right now for them to play their game. when it was salo & bieksa that went down early in nov, then the others banded together, but now with morrison and the extra injuries to the D, it's just too many holes to fill.

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Post by magnum44 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:36 am

Yeah I can't really figure out what is going through AV's head by not putting Linden in the lineup on at least a semi regular basis. Trev is definately not an all star anymore but his experience, versatility and clutch play has to be more valuable right now than some of the scrubs we've been dressing over him. At any rate its worth experimenting with for some games. he could definately take over Cowan's spot cause that guy brings nothing except bad positioning and stupid penalties.
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Post by mr perfect » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:54 pm

randymeeks wrote:Come on guys. Do you honestly think that this team would have won more games over these past few losses if Linden were in the line-up? Outside of (maybe) today's shootout loss to the Panthers, where it may have been handy to have him in the shootout, I don't see how he would have been a factor to the point where any of these losses would have changed to wins.
Let me put it this way - Byron Ritchie: He of the 2 g 6a 8pt in 51 games, having played some 2nd line centre, on the PP and PK, used in the shootout. Did I mention Ritchie is a team worst -11? The goals scored when he's on the PK don't count towards his +/- but the suffice to say, the Canucks PK has slipped from #1 last season when Linden, Josh Green and Morrison killed penalties to hovering between #9 and #13 where Ritchie and Kesler are used on the PK.
Now take Linden. He's played 38 games, has 4g 3a 7pt. Oh yeah, he's a +2 in the =/- department. BTW, Vigneault played him only a little over 8 minutes in his last game against Dallas. If Linden were given the same ice time and the same number of games as Ritchie, don't you think he may have 2-3 more goals? Maybe those goals might have been the difference in winning a game the Canucks lost in a shootout or the tieing goal that would have put a game the Canucks lost into OT in which they could have salvaged a Bettman Bonus Point or have possibly won in OT or the shootout. Don't you think Linden would be a good mentor playing on a line with Raymond and Jaffray? Yes, I'm saying the Canucks might have 2-4 more points if Linden were being used more. He's still a better player at soon to be 38 years old than Cowan, Ritchie and Isbuster. When you have a team that is challenged to score, your coach has to get as much production as possible from all your players and know when those player are ready to produce. I'm saying right now Vigneault hasn't used Linden or Ritchie productively this season.

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Post by mattola » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:58 pm

AV has stated. he wants grit and toughness. He obviously is sending a statement that Trevor doesn't provide his.

I would take Trevor over Ritchie any-day of the week in ANY situation.

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Post by ClamRussel » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:29 am

Tough as in Brown or Cowan tough? Nope Trev isn't.....

....but if AV doesn't think Trev brings grit & toughness then he needs a history lesson and a pair of glasses. Linden may not be a fighter but lacking toughness & grit he is not!
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