Getting time to fire Vigneault

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Joe Rockhead
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: North Delta

Post by Joe Rockhead »

Damn !! I'm gonna miss srsez. I honestly enjoyed his opinions and the way he would say the things I'd say if I was drunk. This board has lost a good one.

I gotta agree with Ronnings ghost, this team Nonis put together and A.V coaches is not fun to watch. If winning is all that matters to some great but not me . I want to be entertained and proud of the team I cheer for. Watching " Kitty barr the door " just dosn't do it for me.

Good luck in your new home Sr. Keep on hatin'
Don Cherry for P.M.
User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 14965
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Post by Cornuck »

After seeing what happens when we hang on to a coach too long (Crawford) I can say that AV is not anywhere near the point to be fired.

Crawford is now destroying the Kings (which is too bad for the young talent they have there).

Give AV a full year without too many injuries, a cap space spent more wisely, and then see where he's at.
Doc: "BTW, Donny was right, you're smug."
Joe Rockhead
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: North Delta

Post by Joe Rockhead »

I don't think it matters what players A.V has or how much time he has he's still going to preach defensive hockey. Personally I'd like to see Nonis and A.V go but only if offensive minded mgt was given a shot.
Don Cherry for P.M.
User avatar
mr perfect
MVP
MVP
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: perfectville

Post by mr perfect »

SRsez wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:The first thread in which I can recall agreeing with SRsez (in content, not presentation) may be his last.
You got it. This is my last post ever.

Firstly, I'm called upon to apologize? For my "tone"? The poster who started everything has apologized, so that should be the end of it, but nooooo.

Then, I leave for a few days to think about it. So I think, yeah, okay, I was a bit out of line by biting the guys head off, maybe I'll go back & say I'm sorry.

But then I get hear & read a Calgarypuker being openly welcomed, and I say "No more".

There are just some things a guy can't handle.

Have your politically correct site, but always remember there are a lot of guys who live in the real world that won't tolerate that kind of B.S., and SR is always going to be one of them.

Friends, feel free to drop me an email sometime if you want to chat about real hockey.

After the Canucks are eliminated next year, remember this thread was the first, and how not only was I right about firing AV, I was right about when the bandwagoners would jump on board.

And one last this: F*ck Calgary, it's hockey teams, people that live there, and anyone that supports them.

p.s. WTF happened to the board? This set-up sucks.
I'll bet SRez moves over to CalgaryPuke and becomes an ardent Flegm's fan. They like his type over there.

It's easy to predict a coach getting fired, most of them do at one point or another to cover for the GM's mistakes. Even Scotty Bowman has been fired from 2 NHL jobs. Now Vigneault has done some things which make you scratch your head. I don't get having Ritchie playing on your second line and on the PP. He's been a 4th liner throughout his career who can fill in on the 3rd line but no more. Putting him up where he can't compete has meant that Ritchie is now a team worst minus 9. Bringing in Rypien at the expense of Raymond was another mistake. Rypien looked awful this last 2 game callup. For the games the Canucks have played, Raymond and Linden have superior PPG and =/- to Ritchie yet get spot played while Ritchie has played all but 2 regular season games. Vigneault seems to have problems with putting his current top 6 offensive talents together on his top 2 lines. I have yet to see a full game where a second line of Raymond-Kesler-Naslund followed behind the Sedins and Pyatt. Against Minnesota, when the score was 2-1 Wild in the middle of the 3rd period and the Canucks needed offence, Vigneault was more concerned about getting his checking line out against Gaborik than getting his best offensive players out to tie the game. Yet he had a defensive pairing of Krajioek and Weaver on the ice for one of the Wild's goals scored by Rolston. It's too early to throw Vigneault under the bus, with key injuries and all to the team. He does need to be scrutinized when he keeps preaching defence late in a game where the Canucks are behind and have scored only one goal. It's not better to lose 2-1 instead of 3-1.
User avatar
mr perfect
MVP
MVP
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: perfectville

Post by mr perfect »

Joe Rockhead wrote:I don't think it matters what players A.V has or how much time he has he's still going to preach defensive hockey. Personally I'd like to see Nonis and A.V go but only if offensive minded mgt was given a shot.
If you like offensive hockey, the Southeast division is for you. With the exception of the Panthers, they all play it open. They are the worst 5 teams in the East as well, with only one of them to make the playoffs by finishing 1st in the poorest division in the NHL. That gets them a date with a 4 game sweep in the opening round of the playoffs, similar to what happened to the Thrashers last season. Play that way in the West and your team gets to share last place with the offensive minded LA Kings.

Comparing wins by the '80s Oilers to today's salary cap NHL is like comparing a Shelby Cobra from the '60s to today's Corvette. Sure, the Oilers were all out offence. During the regular season, they played 24 games against Vancouver, Winnipeg and LA. Other than Randy Carlyle, all 3 teams had cardboard cutouts for defencemen. Gretzky scored more goals against Vancouver than any other team. He fattened his totals against the likes of 19 year old JJ Daigneault, 20 y/o Michel Petit, 21 y/o Garth Butcher, 23 y/o Rick Lanz and 24 y/o Doug Lidster. Throw in an over the hill Jiri Bubla and that was the Canucks defence in 1984. Yet when the Oilers had to, they played defence well in the playoffs, winning the all important game 1 of the 1984 Stanley Cup finals 1-0. Teams today are built to dissect offence and can do so because the defencemen skate much better than they did in the '80s and the goaltending (as well as the equipment) are superior. No one team will win on offence alone.
Fred
CC Legend
Posts: 3435
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by Fred »

[quote
It's easy to predict a coach getting fired, most of them do at one point or another to cover for the GM's mistakes. Even Scotty Bowman has been fired from 2 NHL jobs. Now Vigneault has done some things which make you scratch your head. I don't get having Ritchie playing on your second line and on the PP. He's been a 4th liner throughout his career who can fill in on the 3rd line but no more. Putting him up where he can't compete has meant that Ritchie is now a team worst minus 9. Bringing in Rypien at the expense of Raymond was another mistake. Rypien looked awful this last 2 game callup. For the games the Canucks have played, Raymond and Linden have superior PPG and =/- to Ritchie yet get spot played while Ritchie has played all but 2 regular season games. Vigneault seems to have problems with putting his current top 6 offensive talents together on his top 2 lines. I have yet to see a full game where a second line of Raymond-Kesler-Naslund followed behind the Sedins and Pyatt. Against Minnesota, when the score was 2-1 Wild in the middle of the 3rd period and the Canucks needed offence, Vigneault was more concerned about getting his checking line out against Gaborik than getting his best offensive players out to tie the game. Yet he had a defensive pairing of Krajioek and Weaver on the ice for one of the Wild's goals scored by Rolston. It's too early to throw Vigneault under the bus, with key injuries and all to the team. He does need to be scrutinized when he keeps preaching defence late in a game where the Canucks are behind and have scored only one goal. It's not better to lose 2-1 instead of 3-1.[/quote]

I think the reason for the Rypien / Raymond execise was explained by AV, the two teams that they were playing againsy were more physical, and the previous game against SJ they had been knocked around to easily.
One other point I love Raymonds speed but frankly I'm disappointed we don't see him use it more often, I don't believe they have compatible players to play alongside the guy. But before we start to indulge ourselves with thoughts that Raymond might be the next Guy Lafleur. I believe he is not only light physically but light on his saktes too. he gets knocked off or knocked down far to easily for a genuine NHL'er

Watch for his pet play, up the left wing around the net and rather than try and stuff it he comes further out and tries a shot. If they haven't caught on to it already they will.
cheers
whistler
CC Veteran
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:47 pm
Location: Whistler

Post by whistler »

According to TSN, Raymond is 6' tall and weighs 165 lbs.

That's like a puff of smoke wearing a uniform.

But he's definitely a speed demon.
I'd like to see AV create a full on speed line and put Kesler & Burrows with him though the Kes, Burr, Cookie line is solid for what they do..

Quite frankly though, I like Raymond's knack of going wide on the wrap-around,
So many goalies shut the door on that attempt that hanging on to the puck a little longer, and having options, seems like a good idea.

Not that it works...

...but it 'seems' like a good idea. :roll:
User avatar
mr perfect
MVP
MVP
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: perfectville

Post by mr perfect »

Fred wrote:

I think the reason for the Rypien / Raymond execise was explained by AV, the two teams that they were playing againsy were more physical, and the previous game against SJ they had been knocked around to easily.
One other point I love Raymonds speed but frankly I'm disappointed we don't see him use it more often, I don't believe they have compatible players to play alongside the guy. But before we start to indulge ourselves with thoughts that Raymond might be the next Guy Lafleur. I believe he is not only light physically but light on his saktes too. he gets knocked off or knocked down far to easily for a genuine NHL'er

Watch for his pet play, up the left wing around the net and rather than try and stuff it he comes further out and tries a shot. If they haven't caught on to it already they will.
This sounds familiar doesn't it? Raymond's not Guy Lafleur. He's too light for the NHL. He only has one move. He's washed up then at 22 years old, young players aren't capable of developing and learning new moves are they? Just like Ryan Kesler last season was nothing more than a 3rd line checker and should be traded because he had the audacity to accept a $1.9 million offer sheet. Or the Sedins were never going to be NHLers according to so many Canucks fans. What about that Cam Neely, nothing more than a 3rd line grinder so let's get Barry Pederson for him. Rick Vaive? What a bum. He didn't score 50 in 50 games so trade him. I love how ardent, dye in the wool Canucks fans can tell within 30 games that a young player is no good and how they eat the prospects in this town.
If Vigneault was so concerned about toughness, why was Brown sat out of the Sharks game? How did Brown end up back in Manitoba until Cowan got the crap kicked out of him by Barch? The last time I looked, Brown outweighs Rypien by 30 lb and was doing just fine in the physical department. Brown and Raymond can't be in the Canucks lineup at the same time? Rypien, who is injury prone and has 2 whole points in 9 games so far should be in the lineup over Raymond who has 10 pt in 18 games since his callup? Doesn't this team suffer from a lack of offence? Again, in the 3rd period against Minnesota with the score 2-1 Wild, less than 10 minutes left in the game and the Canucks having killed off a Sedin penalty, Naslund was on the ice then quickly pulled off because Lemaire put Gaborik out and Vigneault wanted Kesler, Burrows and Cooke out against his line. John Garrett noted that at that time of the game, 7 other forwards had more ice time than Naslund. Now I know Naslund is underacheiving this season but JHC, he has more goals, assists and points in '07-'08 than Burrows has in HIS WHOLE CAREER! THE CANUCKS WERE BEHIND AND NEEDED A GOAL! I'm not knocking Burrows, he does his job as a role player and if the Canucks were up at goal at that time of the game, he should be on the ice ahead of Naslund. But when you're down midway through the 3rd period, you play your offensive players until they drop. You doubleshift them if need be. Instead of both Cooke and Burrows, one of them plays and either Naslund, Pyatt or one of the Sedins plays the other wing.
The team itself isn't the only entity in a slump. So is Vigneault. He needs to work his way out of this too.
User avatar
mr perfect
MVP
MVP
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: perfectville

Post by mr perfect »

whistler wrote:According to TSN, Raymond is 6' tall and weighs 165 lbs.

That's like a puff of smoke wearing a uniform.

But he's definitely a speed demon.
I'd like to see AV create a full on speed line and put Kesler & Burrows with him though the Kes, Burr, Cookie line is solid for what they do..

Quite frankly though, I like Raymond's knack of going wide on the wrap-around,
So many goalies shut the door on that attempt that hanging on to the puck a little longer, and having options, seems like a good idea.

Not that it works...

...but it 'seems' like a good idea. :roll:
Whistler, my OTP pal, Raymond weighed 165 lb 2.5 years ago when the Canucks drafted him. He reported to training camp at 186 lb. Not exactly Hulk Hogan but in the same range as Ritchie (190 lb) and Burrows (194 lb). Rypien is listed at 170 lb but he reportedly weighs 180 lb. They have Cooke at 205 lb but if you believe that, I can sell you Burnaby Lake if you're interested. Throw Naslund and Morrison in there and it's pretty obvious lack of size will continue to haunt the Canucks when they play physical teams.
User avatar
Jyrki21
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:51 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON
Contact:

Post by Jyrki21 »

I agree that Vigneault has had some head-scratchers for sure, but the lack of entertainment isn't all him -- the Canucks have a lot of money tied up in their goaltender and defense. There simply isn't cap room for the personnel to have a higher-flying team, even if Vigneault was amenable to it.
Image
User avatar
Madcombinepilot
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7093
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:54 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk.

Post by Madcombinepilot »

SRsez wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:The first thread in which I can recall agreeing with SRsez (in content, not presentation) may be his last.
You got it. This is my last post ever.

I say "No more".

There are just some things a guy can't handle.
bye.
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
User avatar
Badfish
MVP
MVP
Posts: 793
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:50 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Post by Badfish »

This turned into my favorite topic ever :mrgreen: I think he needs to toot his own horn a bit louder, they haven't heard him in China yet.

As for AV, I'm really interested to see what happens this off season with Nazzy and BMo comming off the books (or at least reduced). I hope the extra cap room allows us (read: Nonis) to keep our defensive depth while adding some offensive help either via trade or free agency. (BTW How glad are we now that we didn't trade one of our dmen? Miller,Krycheck, Ohlund and 3 would-be Moose. gooood times. Thank god for Edler)
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31125
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re:

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

SRsez wrote:
Tukaram wrote:
SRsez wrote:We'll wait until the end of next year's playoff run. Then all you guys that don't want him fired will be screaming for his head.

As usual, I'm about a year & a half ahead of the curve.
Don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back. :roll:
Don't worry, I realize I know more about the Canucks than about 95% of so called "die hard" fans. I just enjoy enlightening the world with my insight.
:lol: Where is this guy ?
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
rats19
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 16317
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
Location: over here.....

Re: Getting time to fire Vigneault

Post by rats19 »

SR got hissef ban Ed
Silence intelligence so stupid isn’t offended….
User avatar
SKYO
MVP
MVP
Posts: 14992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re:

Post by SKYO »

whistler wrote:According to TSN, Raymond is 6' tall and weighs 165 lbs.

That's like a puff of smoke wearing a uniform.

But he's definitely a speed demon.
I'd like to see AV create a full on speed line and put Kesler & Burrows with him though the Kes, Burr, Cookie line is solid for what they do..

Quite frankly though, I like Raymond's knack of going wide on the wrap-around,
So many goalies shut the door on that attempt that hanging on to the puck a little longer, and having options, seems like a good idea.

Not that it works...

...but it 'seems' like a good idea. :roll:
LOL good description on Ray.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
Post Reply