Drafting Russian

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Should we ever draft another Ruskie?

No
10
59%
Yes
7
41%
 
Total votes: 17

SRsez
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Post by SRsez » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:13 pm

levelheaded wrote: it's still produced some pretty mean customers. As Grizzly said before, Yzerman, Pronger, Thornton, Bertuzzi and Nash are far from soft players.
Yzerman no. Pronger's just dirty, and unfortunately, yes, the other 3 are soft. Bertuzzi? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Doyle Hargraves
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Post by Doyle Hargraves » Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:35 pm

Isn't there a league in Whalley that could produce some gritty, hard nosed players that the Canucks could use ? :lol:

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Momesso
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Post by Momesso » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:06 pm

Even before this transfer agreement BS, how many Russians that we have drafted have made it to the team?

Chubarov and Bure are the only ones. Bure was a special case (he would have been a top 3 pick if his situation was clear), and Chubarov was a fairly high pick too (early 2nd rounder - 32 or 33 overall).

Anyhow, we use a lot of mid to late picks on Russians, and not a single one has made it to the AHL, let alone the NHL.

Plus, you just don't win with Russians. Not since the days of the Ex-USSR guys like Larionov, Fetisov, Konstantinov. Those guys were grateful and had class.

Cherepanov is, IMO a special case, becasue his upside is so obvious, and he knows he'll be a $5 million - plus earner if he makes it big here. Like a Malkin or Ovechkin. Russia can't match that.

But for all the other mid level talent (who would make less than $3 million here), they have too much incentive to stay home..
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levelheaded
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Post by levelheaded » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:29 pm

SRsez wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
When the OHL stops producing headcases like Bertuzzi, then they might be close.
Yeah .... and also guys like Wayne Gretzky, Steve Yzerman, Ron Francis, Chris Pronger, Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Jason Spezza ... ???!!!

Grizz
Never said the O didn't produce some quality. Just that they produce a lot of crap (can anyone spell L-I-N-D-R-O-S?)

But of the last 20 years the Mem Cup breaks down like this:

QMJHL - 3 champions
OHL - 5 champions
W - 12 champions

Now I don't know about how you score that, but I see it as the W winning 50% more times than the Q & O combined.

But okay, the O is the best league on the planet. :roll:

Only if you know nothing about hockey.
If you want to use that argument, the east have one 9 of the last 16 Stanley cups, is that because they play an infinitely better brand of hockey? For a long time people have used the excuse that the west can't win because the teams are tired out by having to play better teams on route to the finals. Isn't it then possible to say the same thing about the WHL in regards to the Memorial cup?

EDIT: Also, Lindros was a BEAST in his time. Did you even watch hockey back when he was any good? He was one of the most dominant players on earth until concussions got the better of him. Anyways, his injuries were a direct result of the PHYSICAL style he played and was famous for all throughout junior and the NHL. I never liked the guy, but there really hasn't been a player like him since.

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Meerschaum
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Post by Meerschaum » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:36 pm

Momesso wrote:Even before this transfer agreement BS, how many Russians that we have drafted have made it to the team?

Chubarov and Bure are the only ones.
You are forgetting the Professor. (I won't mention Krutov.)
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Momesso
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Post by Momesso » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:55 am

You are forgetting the Professor. (I won't mention Krutov.)
Wouldn't take anything away from Larionov. His generation of USSR regime players (Fetisov, Konstantinov, Makarov etc) were grateful to be here and played with true character. Mayor McKrutov aside, they were awesome to watch and gave us a respect for Russians that has never been matched since.

It's this new generation, under this salary and transfer agreement cloud. Guys like Koltsov, Morozov et al can play here but can earn the same, or a bit more at home, so why bother? And the vast majority aren't the kind of players you can win with.
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Momesso
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Post by Momesso » Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:58 am

Just to add -

Which is why it really bugs me that we pick players from Russia, instead of doing more scouting in Finland or the Czech republic.

Especially Finland, they play just like us over there......
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jchockey
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Post by jchockey » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:34 am

levelheaded wrote:
SRsez wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
When the OHL stops producing headcases like Bertuzzi, then they might be close.
Yeah .... and also guys like Wayne Gretzky, Steve Yzerman, Ron Francis, Chris Pronger, Joe Thornton, Rick Nash and Jason Spezza ... ???!!!

Grizz
Never said the O didn't produce some quality. Just that they produce a lot of crap (can anyone spell L-I-N-D-R-O-S?)

But of the last 20 years the Mem Cup breaks down like this:

QMJHL - 3 champions
OHL - 5 champions
W - 12 champions

Now I don't know about how you score that, but I see it as the W winning 50% more times than the Q & O combined.

But okay, the O is the best league on the planet. :roll:

Only if you know nothing about hockey.
If you want to use that argument, the east have one 9 of the last 16 Stanley cups, is that because they play an infinitely better brand of hockey? For a long time people have used the excuse that the west can't win because the teams are tired out by having to play better teams on route to the finals. Isn't it then possible to say the same thing about the WHL in regards to the Memorial cup?
That makes the East having a slightly above .500 win percentage. The W has blown them away - like SRsez said more than the O and Q combined. I'd say the numbers in the NHL are skewed as well, because the 'Canes shouldn't have been there. Same goes for the Oilers.

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Post by SRsez » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:51 am

levelheaded wrote:Also, Lindros was a BEAST in his time. Did you even watch hockey back when he was any good? He was one of the most dominant players on earth until concussions got the better of him. Anyways, his injuries were a direct result of the PHYSICAL style he played and was famous for all throughout junior and the NHL. I never liked the guy, but there really hasn't been a player like him since.
And there has never been a me-first headcase like him - ever. He was a self-absorbed p.o.s. long before he ever did anything in the NHL. Which never would have flown in the W, where he would have probably become a better player.

And sorry to correct you, but his most famous injury was the direct result of Scott Stevens' physical style of play, it had nothing to do with Lindros, except for the pain inflicted.
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Grizzly
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Post by Grizzly » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:47 am

But okay, the O is the best league on the planet.

Only if you know nothing about hockey.
Don't recall saying that .... I just stated that the OHL has produced some quality players ... I have no doubts that the WHL produces more quality players

... if I knew anything about hockey ... ?? ... lol thats pretty funny !

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SRsez
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Post by SRsez » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:35 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Isn't there a league in Whalley that could produce some gritty, hard nosed players that the Canucks could use ? :lol:
:lol: :lol:
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Post by SRsez » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:38 pm

Grizzly wrote:... if I knew anything about hockey ... ?? ... lol thats pretty funny !Grizz
If you know anything about hockey, you can't say the OHL is the best league.
Grizzly wrote:I just stated that the OHL has produced some quality players ... I have no doubts that the WHL produces more quality players
Higher quality, as a general rule. It has something to do with the schedule as well.
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Grizzly
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Post by Grizzly » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:47 am

Grizzly wrote:
... if I knew anything about hockey ... ?? ... lol thats pretty funny !Grizz


If you know anything about hockey, you can't say the OHL is the best league.
Yep ... got it ...

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SRsez
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Post by SRsez » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:16 pm

Grizzly wrote:
Grizzly wrote:
... if I knew anything about hockey ... ?? ... lol thats pretty funny !Grizz


If you know anything about hockey, you can't say the OHL is the best league.
Yep ... got it ...

Grizz
I don't know about you, Grizz. Maybe you live too close to Calgary or something. You're not an easterner, are you? ::lol:
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Post by Soapy » Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:24 am

There was no transfer agreement when the ' defected'?
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