JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:Once again, I never ever compared Messier and Lemieux I just said Lemieux held on too long which he did...and if you can't see that, well...you're blind.
Why don't you list Gordie Howe too? We proved you wrong and you keep rewrittig the same thing and putting down other people? Can you prove to me how much better was Messier then Mario at their last few seasons? How can you justify saying Mario stayed too long while Messier didn't?
JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:Here's some of the players that carried Yzerman to the cup- Yzerman had guys like Lidstrom, Hull, Shanahan, Larionov, Hasek, Chelios, Draper, Robitaille, Fedorov.
Hmm what do I see here....two defensemen who combined have SEVEN Norris trophies ( and were 1, 2 in Norris voting the 02 year)....a World class goalie...hell maybe even top 5 all time.... 1 700 goal scorer and 2 600 goal scorers...
Man, I don't even know where to start on this,
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag ... 41997.html
96-97 Roster, First Detroit Cup in their recent dynasty, Vernon was the goalie, not Hasek. 1.76GAA .927SV% 1SO, aquried two seasons before the cup winning season.
Hull, Hasek, Chelios, Robitaille NONE of them were in the team. Your world class goalie, norris trophy, and goal scoring dudes were not in the team. Shanahan (17pts in 20games in playoffs)came after two games in Hartford, Sandstrom (4 in 20)came in mid-season, Murphy (11 in 20)came at deadline, Fedorov had 20 in 20, Kozlov 13 in 20, Larionov 12 in 20, Lapointe 12 in 20.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag ... 41998.html
97-98 Roster,. First, Osgood was the goalie, not Hasek. Though he had amazing numbers. 2.12 GAA 918SV% and 2 SO, with 12 PIM. Osgood was their own draft choice, Lidstrom was their own damn draftpick, they didn't TRADE for him, that takes him out of all your arguments. Hull was not in this team. Shanahan had 9 points in 20 games during the playoffs, Chelios was not on the team. Draper had 4 points. Robitaile is not on the team.. see a pattern? Fedorov was their own draft pick, but was injured most of the season, played 21 games only, but was amazing in playoffs 20pts in 25 games. You obviously forgot Holmstrom (own draftpick)(19pts in 22 games) McCarty (own draftpick) (11 in 22 + Cup Winning goal), Lapointe (own draftpick)(15 in 21), Murphy (15 in 22), Kozlov (own draftpick)(14 in 22), wait! here's your Larionov! (13 in 22). Let's see, point production is spreaded out, only new comers would be Shanahan (2nd season with team) Murphy (2nd) Larionov (2nd)
See a pattern? They develop their own talents instead of TRADING for them...hmm Do you want me to go through the Rangers Cup Winning Roster? I'd rather save it for next post when you post more irrational crap.
let's move on to 2002,
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag ... 42002.html
Chelios came in 98, lucky luc in the off season, Hull, in the off season, Hasek in the off season, gee see a pattern?
Lucky Luc had 9pts in playoffs in 23 games, Hull had 18 in 23, Chelios 14 in 23.Guess who led them? Yzerman with 23 in 23, Fedorov and Shanny with 19 in 23,
Hasek went 1.86GAA, .920SV%, 6 SIX shut outs.
this is ONE year, which you can say that Detroit BOUGHT the cup with money, bringing in Luc, Hull and Hasek, who were all seeking the stanley cup.
Yzerman led Detroit to back to back stanley cups, dont' you dare discredit him. I'm surprised again that you only listed big name players, and can't seem to list out the REAL superstars, those who the little battles, it's really an insight into your actual hockey knowledge. Maltby is another one that you left out and usually aren't on the score sheet either
JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:
and so what if the red wings lost to the soon to be West Champions? They were still 1st in the league or West losing to such low seeds....it's a choke and it's a very bad choke.
2002-2003, Joseph had 2.08GAA, 917SV%, what MORE can you ask?
Giguère had 1.62GAA 940SV% and 5 SO that playoff year. 1.5GAA against the Redwings, he was on FIRE remember that 3 shut outs against the Wild? Just HOW do you over come a HOT goalie like that? Granted the Wings has to muster the offense, but it's not like they could, neither could rest of the league until the the Cup Finals against the Devils, who had, Brodeur (The reason this post get on fire, YOU discredited us against him.) Devils had 3 of the top 4 point getters that playoff year.
2003-2004, Kipper. 1.85GAA 928SV% 5 SHUTOUTS. 2GAA against the red wings. but Kipper had shutted out RedWings in game 5 and 6.
2004-2005, Oilers were destinyed, they crashed and banged their way to the game 7 of the stanley cup finals. see something familiar? ALL 3 of these teams made it within 1 game of the Holy Grail!
You can claim all you want about Red Wings choking, but that has is something Yzerman can't change by himself, your trying to say Messier is better then the whole Detroit team because they choked... let's see...
Messier failed to bring playoffs back to New York during his last 7 seasons playing. The last year he did? Oh, they lost 4-1 to the Flyers in 96-97, the year the Red Wings SWEPT the Flyers, talk about choking, losing to a team 4-1 that didn't belong in the Cup finals at all. Either admit choking or admit that the Rangers weren't even strong enough to poise a challenge to the team that didn't even belong to the Cup Finals, your choice.
JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:Oh and it looks also according to you that since Messier didn't win the Conn Smythe or lead the rangers in points in the playoffs he wasn't the leader of the Rangers? hmm funny I guess your god and savior Trevor Linden isn't all he is cracked up to be, that bum wasn't even top 2 in our most valueable players in the cup run ( Mclean and Bure were)
I'd dare you to say this infront of Linden Bure and McLean. Who scored two goals, one shorthanded and one on the powerplay for the Canucks in game 7?
JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:
Oh here is a little quote I enjoy....
"I think my biggest influence has been Messier," says Naslund. "Watching him prepare for games and how seriously he still took everything at his age. A lot of the qualities that he had helped me get better."- Markus Naslund- Feb 19th, 04.
~ Watching Messier's poor attitude and yelling at everyone that he's the greatest taught Naslund not to do it.
~ Listening Messier act like a 5 year old when he can't have the C or number 11, Naslund has learned that he has to be more serious to his team. Thus his comments on captaincy a few years ago. The C is something the team grants you, it's a responsibility, and if the team feels I no longer deserve it, I'd be the first one handing it back. (Something to this point.)
~ A lot of poor qualities and bad behaviours that Messier had really helped Naslund to learn what he should never do against his teammates, especially demanding to trade core players.
Learn to understand that players simply won't bad talk about Messier, for fear that they'd have Lays shoved down their throat in their sleep, or worse.
I thank hockeydb.com, TSN.ca, NHL.com, goaliesarchive.com, for the stats listed here. wikipedia for scores and playoff brackets info, you know, Flyers beating Rangers 4-1 then getting swept in the Finals... James, you better comment on this.
Oh and Brian and CanucksCorner for the bandwidth that I'm sure gonna be taking with this click coming up.
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