I'm sorry but Moran & Reid deserved a much longer shot based on their play imo. No, neither of them were spectacular overall but they didn't even get a chance to settle in. Can we honestly say that any of Green, Bulis, Chouinard or Santala have been spectacular or even steady. We need some more speed up front & Reid brings it. Vigneault says Naslund needs a passing centre & Reid's #1 asset is his speed w/ passing being secondary....well then why not keep Moran up here, clearly his #1 asset is passing. I kinda liked Reid on the wing as opposed to down the middle, I think it could've worked......I'd have really liked to have seen both of them get 10 games in. Is Chouinard's #1 asset passing? Aside from size, what is Santala's assets? I noticed Green was on the ice for Nazzy's goal tonight, is his #1 asset passing? Green belongs on the 4th line at best, Chouinard belongs in the pressbox, Santala belongs in Manitoba & Bulis belongs in a deadline trade proposal. Next to Hank, Moran just may be the best playmaking centre in the organization.
Again, I'll say it, those 2 weren't perfect but they did show something & clearly they weren't worse than Santala & Chouinard....or Bulis & Green for that matter.
Moran & Reid
Moderator: Referees
-
ClamRussel
- CC Legend
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
- Location: New South Wales, Australia
We can't just send Santala and Chounard down can we? they'd probably have to go through waivers, and Nonis probably doesn't want to give them up for free.
Reid and Moran can be sended back down with out going through waivers, i guess that's why. but we can probably bet that they'll be here when they playoffs start.
what we need is a rejuvenated Martin Gelinas.....
We really don't know what Nonis is thinking probably until after the deadline,
what if he could move Bulis, Chounard, Santala all for Gelinas and maybe another defensemen...
that would be.. amazing.
Reid and Moran can be sended back down with out going through waivers, i guess that's why. but we can probably bet that they'll be here when they playoffs start.
what we need is a rejuvenated Martin Gelinas.....
We really don't know what Nonis is thinking probably until after the deadline,
what if he could move Bulis, Chounard, Santala all for Gelinas and maybe another defensemen...
that would be.. amazing.
Yea, we couldn't just send down Bulis or chouinard, but I know what you're saying. I'm sure as the year goes, with injuries each one will get some more games.
I have to say though, Green has really been impressing me lately, looked really good the past 2 games especially. skating hard, finishing checks, and even getting a few good whacks at the net. had a post last night did he not? He's showing why DN thought he deserved his first one-way contract this season.
I have to say though, Green has really been impressing me lately, looked really good the past 2 games especially. skating hard, finishing checks, and even getting a few good whacks at the net. had a post last night did he not? He's showing why DN thought he deserved his first one-way contract this season.
I heard it was all to do with salary savings.
Moran & Reid are on two way contracts and thus are paid less when in Manitoba, whereas the other players mentioned get paid their NHL salary no matter where they play. At this point Nonis needs all the cap room he can get until the dead line.
I suspect after the 27th those that deserve the ice time will be here.
Moran & Reid are on two way contracts and thus are paid less when in Manitoba, whereas the other players mentioned get paid their NHL salary no matter where they play. At this point Nonis needs all the cap room he can get until the dead line.
I suspect after the 27th those that deserve the ice time will be here.
-
Meerschaum
- MVP
- Posts: 492
- Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:50 pm
- Location: Vancouver, B.C.
It's all cap related. DN needs to spend up to the cap, to take advantage of the cap relief from Kessler's injury. That's why Kessler still isn't listed as being on the IR.
I actually liked what I saw from Moran. As for Reid? I'm still not a believer. His call-up did nothing to dispel my concerns over him - namely he's too small, overhandles the puck too much to be an effective passer and lacks finish.
I actually liked what I saw from Moran. As for Reid? I'm still not a believer. His call-up did nothing to dispel my concerns over him - namely he's too small, overhandles the puck too much to be an effective passer and lacks finish.
Modo vincis, modo vinceris.
WCE wrote:Clam, agree on Moran and disagree on Reid.
I have to run right now but I will respond in more depth tonight.
I agree. One thing I like about Moran is his passing game. I thought he had some good chemistry with Nazzy and definitely took advantage of playing with such a high-calibre player. Sending him down to bring up Santala was just dumb and probably simply made due to cap considerations. Still, I was very surprised that he was sent down before Reid because I thought he was more impressive overall (despite Reid's flashes).
Reid, I'm not so sure about anymore. I thought he had an absolutely terrific debut and continued his level of play for a couple of games but he was absolutely invisible in his last game. To be fair, so was the rest of the team, but unfortunately for him he doesn't have the luxury of a permanent spot on this team. He needs to bust his ass every game to stay here.
Having said that, I think Meerschaum makes a number of telling obervations about weaknesses in Reid's game. Personally, I'm not too concerned about his size because he has a lot more tenacity then say a Steve Kariya, but it's all the other things which prevent him from sticking. He's got great speed and can create good chances off the rush but he seems to lack overall vision. The most frustrating thing is that he generates great chances bursting across the blueline only to ruin them by overhandling the puck or taking a poor angle shot on net. It's just a waste! He has the potential to create a great scoring chance (and he does sometimes to his credit, the two great setups for Nazzy and Moran in particular) but the majority of the time he either makes a poor pass, stickhandles too much, or takes a harmless shot.
Still, I agree with you Clam that he deserves a spot over all the other players you mentioned, save Green. I have been really impressed with Green since he came to the Canucks. He battles hard and gives great effort night in and night out. I have been surprised by how well he has played with Nazzy, though I still preferred the Moran-Reid-Nazzy line. Back to Reid, I definitely prefer him to guys like Chouinard, Santala, and Bulis (though Bulis does occasionally play a good game). It's frustrating that these guys are locked up on 1 way contracts. Especially Chouinard - what a stupid signing!
-
Linden Is God
- CC Hall of Fan Member
- Posts: 1950
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:58 pm
- Location: Timmins, Ontario
-
tuzzi44
- CC 2nd Team All-Star
- Posts: 429
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:39 am
- Location: Medicine Hat, Alberta
although he hasnt played many games with the canucks this year, i was expecting alot more from Reid this time around. this is not his first rodeo and he should know what is expected from him. because of his speed, perhaps we should consider throwing him in a package for a deadline deal, assuming it wouldnt be for a rental player (I hate that!)
BELIEVE.
"we did a fucking great job"
Jonathan Toews
"we did a fucking great job"
Jonathan Toews
-
Farhan Lalji
Re: Moran & Reid
I agree with you in regards to Moran and Reid. Moran and Reid looked very good alongside Naslund. Naslund himself, seemed to feed off of the speed and offensive-mindset that both men brought.ClamRussel wrote:I'm sorry but Moran & Reid deserved a much longer shot based on their play imo. No, neither of them were spectacular overall but they didn't even get a chance to settle in. Can we honestly say that any of Green, Bulis, Chouinard or Santala have been spectacular or even steady. We need some more speed up front & Reid brings it. Vigneault says Naslund needs a passing centre & Reid's #1 asset is his speed w/ passing being secondary....well then why not keep Moran up here, clearly his #1 asset is passing. I kinda liked Reid on the wing as opposed to down the middle, I think it could've worked......I'd have really liked to have seen both of them get 10 games in. Is Chouinard's #1 asset passing? Aside from size, what is Santala's assets? I noticed Green was on the ice for Nazzy's goal tonight, is his #1 asset passing? Green belongs on the 4th line at best, Chouinard belongs in the pressbox, Santala belongs in Manitoba & Bulis belongs in a deadline trade proposal. Next to Hank, Moran just may be the best playmaking centre in the organization.
Again, I'll say it, those 2 weren't perfect but they did show something & clearly they weren't worse than Santala & Chouinard....or Bulis & Green for that matter.
As you allude to, coaches need to ask themselves, "what does this player ADD to the team?" In Reid's and Moran's cases, both men brought speed and potential for offense. Santala doesn't bring ANYTHING.
Chouinard adds something to the PK if injury problems occur (and hence, helps maintain our PK strength).
As it relates to Bulis, I wouldn't mind trading him PROVIDED that we get an equally efficient PK'er in return (if Bulis is traded in a single deal or packaged deal). Again - it's about maintain our strengths...and determining who ADDS something to the team.
Bulis, whether we like him or not, is playing for a contract....and is a VERY GOOD penalty killer. With Bulis' occassional flashes of brilliances, he's the type of guy that can score a random goal in a crucial game. I'd keep Bulis.
-
headspacej
- AHL Prospect
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:08 pm
Reid=Richard Park?
How many times did we see Richard Park come flying into the offensive zone last year and then make absolutely nothing happen? They're both exciting to watch when they take off with the puck at mach speed, but it got so frustrating to watch Park fizzle time and time again. I hope that isn't Reid's fate.rockalt wrote: He's got great speed and can create good chances off the rush but he seems to lack overall vision. The most frustrating thing is that he generates great chances bursting across the blueline only to ruin them by overhandling the puck or taking a poor angle shot on net.
-
Todd Bersnoozi
- CC Hall of Fan Member
- Posts: 2802
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:14 pm
Yeah, I think Santala, Green and Chouinard all bring size and a steady defensive game, players that would fit better on a 3rd line rather than offensive minded Reid/Moran. That being said, on the negative side, Nasi is kind of out of place on a 3rd line with Green; however, on the positive side, this means Nasi probably won't be facing the top checkers like he would on a first line and he brings a scoring threat to that line. There's pros and cons. Overall, I do like Green though. I think he has decent skills, even though his point production may not show it.
-
ClamRussel
- CC Legend
- Posts: 3992
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
- Location: New South Wales, Australia
Glad you recognized them. I thought they were top notch as well...yet Vigneault criticized his passing skills.rockalt wrote:He has the potential to create a great scoring chance (and he does sometimes to his credit, the two great setups for Nazzy and Moran in particular)
Don't get me wrong, I really like Green too......its just he's now playing w/ Naslund & why doesn't Vigneault hold Green up to the same passing standards he held Reid to? Green isn't exactly Gretzky in the set-up dept either.
Still, Reid was on the wing & it was his job to use his speed to create offence which he did and it was Moran's job to do the majority of the playmaking to Reid & Nazzy (which he also did).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't players on one-way deals be sent to the minors w/o waivers? I thought it was when you recalled them that they had to clear waivers (& that 50% Wade Flaherty rule kicked in). For example the Flyers sent Baumgartner down to the minors during that dreadful start....and later regretted it....but due to the Flaherty rule they wouldn't risk recalling him despite him making over a million in the A. I'd rather see Santala making his full salary in Manitoba than rotting in the pressbox.
All I'm saying is I'd like to have seen Moran & Reid get a longer look-see.....let them at least settle in a bit longer. I really think the results would have come. Naslund looked great w/ those two!
-
tantalum
- CC Hall of Fan Member
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:41 am
- Location: Carl Junction, MO
Took you long enough to make this thread Clam.....
On Moran....Not sure as I really only noticed him the first game he played (perhaps that's the problem...2 games and in only one was he noticeable).. He was O.K. but didn't bring anything else to the table that isn't already on the roster. And that in a nutshell is Brad Moran the player....decent at everything but not really good at anyone thing to stand out and make an impact in the NHL. A good AHL player but not NHL material. Everyone knew that in Junior when he was the best player in the WHL....and undrafted. It isn't a shock.
Reid...Beyond a few shifts in his first two games he did absolutely nothing. In the third game he was invisible from the opening faceoff and was benched in the third for all the right reasons. The fact of the matter is if you are nearly 26 years of age and haven't even established yourself as a regular NHL callup you better be busting your ass each and every time you hit the ice in a game and each and every drill in practice when you get the call. I don't know about the practices, but Reid was certainly not busting his ass each and every shift. He tended to at the beginning of the game for a few shifts but by the time the second rolled aorund he was a non-factor. In the Chicago game he was a non-factor from the get go. And that's been the problem with Reid from day one...even through Junior. He just doesn't give a consistent hard effort and he doesn;t consistently use his best assets to his advantage. It's why he isn't even a dominant AHL player let alone an NHL player. Perhaps he simply is too slight of frame to compete in the NHL on any sort of consistent basis. No one should be surprised by him getting sent down.
We know have 2 different coaching staffs who have said Reid simply isn't good enough for the NHL. For Moran I believe it is 3 coaching stafffs and 2 organizations. It isn't some conspiracy. They are either really late bloomers or they simply will never be good enough to get more than a handful of NHL games in a year. I think it's the latter.
On Moran....Not sure as I really only noticed him the first game he played (perhaps that's the problem...2 games and in only one was he noticeable).. He was O.K. but didn't bring anything else to the table that isn't already on the roster. And that in a nutshell is Brad Moran the player....decent at everything but not really good at anyone thing to stand out and make an impact in the NHL. A good AHL player but not NHL material. Everyone knew that in Junior when he was the best player in the WHL....and undrafted. It isn't a shock.
Reid...Beyond a few shifts in his first two games he did absolutely nothing. In the third game he was invisible from the opening faceoff and was benched in the third for all the right reasons. The fact of the matter is if you are nearly 26 years of age and haven't even established yourself as a regular NHL callup you better be busting your ass each and every time you hit the ice in a game and each and every drill in practice when you get the call. I don't know about the practices, but Reid was certainly not busting his ass each and every shift. He tended to at the beginning of the game for a few shifts but by the time the second rolled aorund he was a non-factor. In the Chicago game he was a non-factor from the get go. And that's been the problem with Reid from day one...even through Junior. He just doesn't give a consistent hard effort and he doesn;t consistently use his best assets to his advantage. It's why he isn't even a dominant AHL player let alone an NHL player. Perhaps he simply is too slight of frame to compete in the NHL on any sort of consistent basis. No one should be surprised by him getting sent down.
We know have 2 different coaching staffs who have said Reid simply isn't good enough for the NHL. For Moran I believe it is 3 coaching stafffs and 2 organizations. It isn't some conspiracy. They are either really late bloomers or they simply will never be good enough to get more than a handful of NHL games in a year. I think it's the latter.
While I understand that results are the end all be all for some when it comes to prospects, I look more at the skills sets and if those skill sets are NHL quality....
In the case of Reid, what I saw from him during his brief call up was that he has the god given skills to play at the NHL level...
In the case of Morin, I'm not as sure but that might be because while Reid at times tried too hard to impress, Morin might have been a little too tentative at times....
I watched the Moose vs the Marlies game last night and while Reid didn't make it on the score board it was clear to me that he is at a different level than most of the players in that game....The other player that stood out was Edler...
Fingers crossed that the teams top end prospects make it to the show because if they do, the likes of Grabner and Mason and Reid and Simek will turn a team lacking in team speed to one with speed to burn....
Take care...
In the case of Reid, what I saw from him during his brief call up was that he has the god given skills to play at the NHL level...
In the case of Morin, I'm not as sure but that might be because while Reid at times tried too hard to impress, Morin might have been a little too tentative at times....
I watched the Moose vs the Marlies game last night and while Reid didn't make it on the score board it was clear to me that he is at a different level than most of the players in that game....The other player that stood out was Edler...
Fingers crossed that the teams top end prospects make it to the show because if they do, the likes of Grabner and Mason and Reid and Simek will turn a team lacking in team speed to one with speed to burn....
Take care...