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You are right that like Ohlund with Jovo they never played significant time as a pair together, but by taking on the role of shutdown defenseman Ohlie has been more free to create offensive opportunities for himself.
The benenfactor of Ohlund playing a more comfortable role as a defensive type of player was not Jovo, it was Sopel who actually put up better numbers than Jovo any way. They played well as a tandem, so to did Jovo and LaChance/Malik. But it was Sopel and Ohlund that took on the other teams top line and in front of not a stellar goalie.
Now this year, I agree Ohlund is allowed more freedom by having others do the donkey work. Bieska and Mitchell are in tough and the stats confirm that one is a minus 5 and the other a minus 7, playing in front of one of the recognised best goalies in the NHL. So they doing a great job, some say yes some say look at the reality of the situation. Of course you can disreagrd the fact that Malik in this Cap driven league having a $2.5 mil/season rather than a Mitchell US$3.5 mil/season salary is not a stats worth making mention of either, it's just a fun stat
On a little different point why was Edler sent down and Tremblay brought up. I have to believe Edler is the better player IMO. Does AV like the French players .... dare I ask ?
Fred wrote:Bieska and Mitchell are in tough and the stats confirm that one is a minus 5 and the other a minus 7, playing in front of one of the recognised best goalies in the NHL. So they doing a great job, some say yes some say look at the reality of the situation. Of course you can disreagrd the fact that Malik in this Cap driven league having a $2.5 mil/season rather than a Mitchell US$3.5 mil/season salary is not a stats worth making mention of either, it's just a fun stat
Fred, you've really avoided the main point. The main point is that no coach in the history of NHL has given Malik a regular spot in the top pairing, to play against the opposing team's first line. Mitchell, on the other hand, was given such a role by Lemaire, who really hoped that Mitchell would stay with the WIld instead of testing UFA, eventually forcing the Wild to trade him. Argue what you want, ask the Rangers fans whether they'd trade Malik for Mitchell straight up, and those who actually stay up late to watch the Western conference games would say yes in a heartbeat.
FYI, in the past five seasons, Malik has never ranked in top 4 on his own team's average ice time for defensemen. Mitchell has never ranked lower than top 4 in the same time period, most of them in number 3 spot, reflecting his role as a shutdown specialist.
Oh I understand clearly what was being said. Jovo couldn't play against the other teams top line, he was a defensive liability. But to compensate they played an absolutly steady defensive partner with him. It was no accident that Jovo was a low plus Minus depsite the fact Malik was the tops in the league that year. But think of this not only did the pairing of Sopel and Ohlund go against the top line ( just like Mitchell and Bieska) they were at the same time the top offensive pairing as well.
I think Mitchells steady and he does bring attitude to his position as does Bieska. That's great it's also some thing Malik did not. But don't any one tell me that Malik is any thing but an exceptional player. When Jimmy Rutherford states it's the worse trade he's ever made, to me that counts. here's a guy that built his own SC team against the odds. Yeah good for Mo making his comments and you expect nothing less from a team mate. But to me Rutherford's opinion carrys more weight. And remember Malik comes at a 30% discount on Mitchell and specifically in these days that's significant
Fred wrote: not only did the pairing of Sopel and Ohlund go against the top line ( just like Mitchell and Bieska) they were at the same time the top offensive pairing as well.
Not when Jovo was playing. He was (rightfully so) the #1 offensive D any time he was healthy.
By your accounting, Andrej Meszaros was the best D man in the league last season at +34 then?
Whatever, if you want to believe that Malik is better than Mitchell, we'll just let you live in your dream world.
$1M isn't enough of a difference to pick Malik. They were both free agents, so why did Mitchell get that much more $? It must be because Nonis overpaid.
Real hockey fans refuse to listen to the Idiot(tm)
Hey what ever, in the season 20-03 / 03-04 / 04 05 Jovo was never the top defensive point man on the team.
It went like this Salo/Sopel/Malik/Jovo
Ohlund/Sopel/ Salo/Jovo
Ohlund/Salo/Jovo ( Sopel and Malik had moved by then)
AS to the +/- it's like a who'd who of defensemen Chara, Redding, Malik but Jovo never made the top fifty.
The guy that drew it to my attention was Keith Jones and as he said whats not to love about this guy (Malik) but I suppose he doesn't know his ass from his elbow either. Funny why Dallas never resigned Mitchell especally considering they did have room under the Cap
Fred wrote:Hey what ever, in the season 20-03 / 03-04 / 04 05 Jovo was never the top defensive point man on the team.
It went like this Salo/Sopel/Malik/Jovo
Ohlund/Sopel/ Salo/Jovo
Ohlund/Salo/Jovo ( Sopel and Malik had moved by then)
AS to the +/- it's like a who'd who of defensemen Chara, Redding, Malik but Jovo never made the top fifty.
The guy that drew it to my attention was Keith Jones and as he said whats not to love about this guy (Malik) but I suppose he doesn't know his ass from his elbow either. Funny why Dallas never resigned Mitchell especally considering they did have room under the Cap
Yes Fred, Jovo was always a #3/4 when he played for the Canucks.
And Keith Jones is the definitive expert on all matters hockey.
Whatever makes you happy. Senility must do that.
Real hockey fans refuse to listen to the Idiot(tm)
Fred wrote: Funny why Dallas never resigned Mitchell especally considering they did have room under the Cap
It's been rumoured (although never confirmed by any credible source that I know of) that he was offered a contract by Dallas. It's a known fact that he took a discount to come here.
Considering the day he was signed Pavel Kubina got $5 mill, Hal Gill got $2.2 mill, Joe Corvo got 2.6 mill, Jay McKee (who is a comparable Dman to Mitchell) got $4 mill, Filip Kuba got $3 mill. Hell, even Baumer got 1.2 mill from Philly. See the trend here? I'd say Mitchell is better then any of those guys, yet he got a similar salary to all of them. Ask any GM in the league if they'd want Mitchell at $3.5 mill on their team and I'm certain they'd say yes, and in my opinion he has been worth every penny of that money.
Fred wrote:Yes Fred, Jovo was always a #3/4 when he played for the Canucks. Correct
And Keith Jones is the definitive expert on all matters hockey. more knowlegable than you for sure
Whatever makes you happy. Senility must do that nice to see you open up I'm sure it helps
Yes, and I forgot how Marek Malik is the best d man ever to play the game. Just that he's never even been a 3 makes it hard for me to remember how he got to better than Bobby Orr.
Keith Jones? Why not Keith Olberman? Or Keith Jackson?
Is your alias "jamesblowssam" or something?
Real hockey fans refuse to listen to the Idiot(tm)
Yes, and I forgot how Marek Malik is the best d man ever to play the game. Just that he's never even been a 3 makes it hard for me to remember how he got to better than Bobby Orr.
Funny I don't recall writing that and if you believe that I'd argue against you. I was discussing the relative merits of Mitchell v's Malik, always keeping in mind the salary both are paid. I did used to get frustated with Jovo continued defensive blunders and I was thankful that a cool head like Malik was there game in game out bailing him out. For what Mitchell brings to the ice I believe he's over priced, I'm not saying he's a bad player but he'll never produce stats like Malik. Ive never seen Malik fight but there again I've never seen Mitchell fight so who's better seems academic.
Mitchell will never score a shoot out goal like Malik either
levelheaded wrote: Ask any GM in the league if they'd want Mitchell at $3.5 mill on their team and I'm certain they'd say yes, and in my opinion he has been worth every penny of that money.
Agree 100%. How many teams have a shut down D man with grit and leadership locked up for the next few years at that price? Nonis' Luongo/Bert deal may have made the biggest splash but his Mitchell signing could have been his best off season move in my books. How good will this deal look when he's wearing the C?
[quote Well, Fred will be there holding a sign saying "Bring Back Malik & give him the captaincy".
![/quote]
You know you keep telling me what I should say or do, don't. I'm getting really fed up with your assumptions. You can say what the Hell you want but do not speak or act on my behalf OK