If the Canucks are 10th or below by the trading deadline....

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Postby Tukaram » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:44 pm

JamesOwnzSam11 should be traded to an ECHL forum.
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Postby Cornuck » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:53 pm

Hey! I run an ECHL forum!!!!!
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Postby Momesso » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:13 pm

I think Luongo is not our problem. He's not been the stellar force that we expected (and paying) him to be, but I do think he's probably facing a lot of pressure and not getting enough help.

For not meeting up to Salary expectations, I'm really more disappointed with Naslund. Here's a guy who should be able to carry a line offensively. I think I fully expected us to have 2 solid lines, not just the Sedin line, but one of Nazzy, Mo and Cooke. Where did the chemistry go? Naslund has been reduced to a triplet. All 3 of those guys has me disappointed.

This team needs to add at least one player with some offensive creativity, and at least one player who is willing to get dirty every shift. Some intensity.
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Postby Broda » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:43 pm

I know im going to get alot of heat for this... im not saying trade him at all... we gave up alot for him to give up on him this early. He started out so strong if you look at his numbers on tsn game by game you will all realise that there is much truth in the matter of Luongo needing to play better. Nonis knew we were going to have a tough time scoring but im sure he figured Luongo was going to be back there to win us those games that were tight. Honestly at the start of the season i was so unbelievably pumped that we had traded for luongo... i was sad very sad to see bert go... but had huge expectations for luongo .... and why not. Pretty much every year he has had a save percentage close to 92 or over in 2004 before the lock out.
Luongo has been solid, but not great. I know you could say it for alot of teams but if Kipprusof was in net for us im sure our record would be more around the 700 mark ... thats the thing that bothers me about the whole luongo thing... maybe it is that he needs to be shelled to play well... but he needs to start making those big stops that change a game.. like that goal that brunette scored a couple weeks ago.. and then goal last night against stasny... i know they were both not much chance.. but if everyone says that luongo is a top three goalie... well guys like kipprusof and Broduer make those saves more often then not.

i defenitly don't think that luongo should be traded.. we put alot into him so far and its just been a couple of months.. i still have very high hopes for him to suceed and be an elite goalie, i just hope it happens sooner rather than later.. because soon the media might start saying things... they already mentioned that he is having troubles keeping the canucks in games late. All i can really say is this team isn't too bad if he plays teh way we expected him to play. this team makes the playoffs.. if he keeps just playing solid, baring some moves upfront... we just miss the playoffs.. and considering we miss the playoffs last year and made so many changes this year.. i thin kthat would be a dissapointment.. otherwise why did we make all those moves.. i know its a work in progress.. but this team should still be good. especially if bobby can play the way we all know he can
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Postby Momesso » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:08 am

Yeah the media are another problem here, they'll just add fuel to the fire and get it in Luongo's head that this really is a goalie graveyard, and it won't help the situation at all. Sometimes they drive me absolutely nuts :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Postby orts » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:33 pm

Momesso wrote:Yeah the media are another problem here, they'll just add fuel to the fire and get it in Luongo's head that this really is a goalie graveyard, and it won't help the situation at all. Sometimes they drive me absolutely nuts


The "media" are on Luongo's case? All I see is a troll on an internet forum, and a bunch of people giving him way too much credit.
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Postby supercanuck » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:58 pm

orts wrote:
Momesso wrote:Yeah the media are another problem here, they'll just add fuel to the fire and get it in Luongo's head that this really is a goalie graveyard, and it won't help the situation at all. Sometimes they drive me absolutely nuts


The "media" are on Luongo's case? All I see is a troll on an internet forum, and a bunch of people giving him way too much credit.


I don't think anyone is giving "James" any credit but the fact remains that Luongo CAN play better and he is paid to be better than most goalies. Right now at least Roloson, Kiprusoff, and probably Backstrom (played 8 games already) are playing better for our division rivals than he is. And gasp, even Theodore was key (big early saves) in the victories Colorado has had against the Canucks. This team is only 4 points out of the division lead and if Luongo was playing up to his superstar status, that probably Nonis expected him to be at, this team would be #1 in the division (that Calgary game really sticks out, and the Colorado game where he couldn't stop Brunette, Franzen's goal).

Like I said before he is not the problem, but he was supposed to be the answer.
Last edited by supercanuck on Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grizzly » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:05 pm

Yes the Canucks are having trouble scoring, we all knew they would...but Luongo was meant to steal some games for us, which he hasn't.


I would more say that he has kept us in games so we have had the chance to win ... clearly we have got a lot of holes in our team from secondary scoring to lack of depth on D etc. If we were a little stronger in some of those areas then I think you would see Luongo "stealing" a game or two for us.


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Postby supercanuck » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:20 pm

Grizzly wrote:
Yes the Canucks are having trouble scoring, we all knew they would...but Luongo was meant to steal some games for us, which he hasn't.


I would more say that he has kept us in games so we have had the chance to win ... clearly we have got a lot of holes in our team from secondary scoring to lack of depth on D etc. If we were a little stronger in some of those areas then I think you would see Luongo "stealing" a game or two for us.

Grizz


What is your definition of stealing a game/point though? I would say Leclaire/Kolzig stole a point for their teams. Luongo I don't believe has come close to that. One big save does not "steal" a game. Even Cloutier/Auld makes big saves once in a while. Our D has for the most part played excellent this season (2nd in the league in shots against). Luongo has only provided very average goaltending this year for the team.
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Postby randymeeks » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:16 pm

Yeah, supercanuck says it best. Luongo isn't the problem although I firmly believe Luongo has another gear that will hopefully kick in sometime soon.
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Postby Badfish » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:55 am

Ok, I had to come back when I saw how many posts were made in this topic!

Sure Luongo hasn't been exactly unbeatable, but COME ON people! I'ts 25 games in, the team is in a funk, nobody is scoring!! Everyone's just frusterated and looking for someone to blame. Luongo hasn't stolen any games for us? Are you kidding? How about the great start the team got off to where Luongo would make several key saves late in the period that allowed us to string together some good games.

The longer we wait, the better this guy will be. He's still adjusting to a new team, new system, and new opponents. He's said a few times how it's going to take him a bit to start to see players tendancies in this confrence. Combine that with the adjustment to a new system, new coach and defensemen (at least half of these "bad goals" are going in off our dmen anyways) I think to even bringing up the idea of moving him or being unsatisfied with him is absolutely freakin' retarded.

This guy is a gem, and you don't just toss those away. I'm starting to think it's not the media that makes this place a goalie graveyard it's all of us hockey freaks who have nothing better to do than bitch about our team! WE HAVE LUONGO! ROBERTO LUONGO!!! And we're complaining after 25 some odd games?? ridiculous!

And for gods sakes
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This was an obvious flame attempt! If we keep feeding him he keeps comming back! And I've just given him a bit more...
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Postby rikster » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:06 am

I think the poster raises a point that is worth discussing...

I have been disappointed with Luongo's play, but maybe that is my fault for setting the bar so high for him ...

As some have pointed out, I had help raising the bar when Nonis dished out a good amount of his cap space to sign him...

Media hype aside, I don't think he has been any better than Auld was last season and I wasn't all that impressed with the goaltending last season...

Luongo can get all worked up after the last game, but somebody should sit him down and explain how a cap system works, if you want to take much of the cap space for yourself, that doesn't leave much for other good players to play with..

I told myself at the start of the season that this would be part two of the dismantling of the former core group and that it would be a season to get rid of some contracts that run thru next season...

The team has $35 million committed to 12 players next season which means that if he doesn't make some cuts Nonis will be bargain basement shopping again next season to fill out his roster...

Heaven forbid if the cap falls next season!...

For me its a Cup or bust this season which is to say the worst thing would be for the team to sneak into the post season and then go out early because that would mean they likely keep all of their expensive contracts going into the off season...

If the team falls out of the race early, the take away from that would be that Nonis should be free and able to deal contracts he doesn't want to take with him into next season...

With thank you to Southern Canuck who has provided a link to the teams prospects, there appears to be a number of kids in the system who are playing at a very high level in their respective leagues and a common trait many of them have is speed....

Watching Coulombe play this year can't help but make you giddy thinking of Koltsov on the Nucks powerplay next season....

Bourdon has been dominant since going back to junior and gives us a look see at what type of player he will be once he has been acclimatized into the NHL....

These players and a number of others who are having very good years gives some hope that many of the roster spots next season can be filled by the kids who will give Nonis some cap room to shop at a higher end market next off season ....

Take care...
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Postby Madcombinepilot » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:36 am

(at least half of these "bad goals" are going in off our dmen anyways)


I don't think I have seen some many bad bounce goals in my life as I have seen against Louongo this year. In the Colorado game, the third (?) goal went off two sticks to the Av in front (Whom Ohlund had just kicked the Av's player stick out of harms way when the shot came in), but the puck (after going off a couple sticks) hits the stick Ohlund just kicked, and the puck is behind Louongo....

I mean.. c'mon... Puck luck is hard to come by.

Except for a handfull of games, there always seems to be at least one goal that ping-pong's it's way into our net. OLouongo has stopped a couple of those, but nothing stops the lucky shot. we just need to get a couple dirty goals like that.
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Postby Broda » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:20 pm

The whole deal about bad bounces i think that was a pretty nice tip by Wolski... lu didn't have a chance on that one.. you could tell he knew the shot was well wide and so he was getting up to move to the corner to follow the play and low and behold... goal... yeah thats shitty i didn't see much to do with luck.. it seemed like a planed shot wide...
anyway when i was talking about the goals that he gave up against brunette.... two weeks ago.. and stasny the other night.. those are goals that when luongo looks brilliant.. the guy we traded for and are paying 6.5 mil a season could have and probably would have stopped them... thats all im saying is that if this team with the way it is wants to be succesful.. then we need luongo to play that top calibre of play that we saw in the first couple of games.. i know he is one of only a few goalies in the league that can do it... i just wish he would do it consistently.. and thats one of the draw backs of him is that he is inconsistent some of the time.. but he is getting older and wiser im sure he is going to be better with age.. thats why i say nonis' four year plan starts today... well then.. when we signed him. Cause im not expecting the cup this year.. it would be nice to sneak into the playoffs and maybe steal a series.. i think this team if it could click and luongo playing as he can did it could happen.. but i do have expectations that nonis will have a team built for playoff sucess in the next four years.. if luongo plays the way he can.. i see the canucks winning their first lord stanley's mug.

I for one am in no way blaming luongo for the record we have.. i know there are lots of holes yet to be filled on this team.. but we are clearly re tooling... i personally don't think we have the youth in our system to call this rebuilding.. cause right now we don't have that young soon to be star in our organization asides from Bourdon.. and i think he will turn out to be quite a bit like Ohlund.. oh man i wish he didn't age anymore.. he played so well the other night...

anyway i hope Lu starts making those key saves again... cause i don't think he needs to steal games.. hell if we are only giving up 20 some odd shots a game.. i wouldn't consider that stealing games at all... its just those key ones like the brunette and stasny goals...
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Postby magnum44 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:59 pm

I think they just have to tone down on the defensive responsibility attitude. Since most of the guys on this team are stonehanded PK specialists it seems to make sense to play to the strengths of your personnel, but for a few games I would like to see the Nucks sell out a bit more. Send a few guys out on cherry picking duty. It would get some of our guys a little more comfortable and confident playing for offensive chances. For a euro checking team like this they have no transition game whatsoever. Obviously these guys don't have the team skill to gain the zone and score on set up plays(outside of top line), too small/weak and defensively oriented to play the crash the net game. That pretty much leaves dump and chase or sit back and try to play the quick transition game. With guys like kesler, morrison, burrows, bulis and cooke around I think we should be seeing a lot more stretch pass attempts at least. Luongo seems to be a better preformer when he's facinfg more shots so it somewhat mitigates the risk of aggressibely sending guys early. My 2 cents anyway.
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