Is this a case of AV or a DN problem child

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Is this a case of AV or a DN problem child

Postby Fred » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:29 am

I see a Canucks team that seems to working hard ( but then again so does a mouse in a revolving wheel) or do we have the wrong parts. Not to say it won't right it's self but as the chips lie now at whom would you point the finger

AV
DN
players

??

Although AV has the team playing a more conservative style and featruing hard work is that suffient ?

DN signing of Chouinard, Santala, Cooke Bulis and Fitzpatrick, ham strung him and preventing him with other opportunities.

Has the goal scoring dried up temporarily or is it simply no longer there, can these players like Morrison, Bulis and Cooke start putting them in again ?
cheers
Fred
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Postby MarkMM » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:08 pm

I'll admit that even when we were winning, our secondary scoring wasn't there consistently, so I think we've got the wrong people. That said, I still have faith in DN, he tried some gambles, and some worked out (Krajicek, Bieksa, Pyatt) and some didn't (Bulis in particular, Morrison and Cooke at their respective salaries). That's still a good record, what's important is how he addresses with our current holes, and I'd expect changes to be made if players don't start performing. Part of the problem was also our defense getting injured, just rotten luck losing 2/3 top d-men, it puts Nonis in a desperate position you should never trade from.
Mark
MarkMM
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:28 pm
Location: Delta, BC

Postby Cornuck » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:20 pm

I don't see a problem with this team, really. After a long overdue housecleaning, we are a team in transition. After some trades were made and the team came together, everyone here expected the team to miss the playoffs - or at best sneak in to 8th spot. People also said we would do ok if we didn't have the injury problems like last year.

So here we are. Almost one quarter of the way through the season and the team is just below .500 and hovering around 8th place - with 2 of our top D out of the lineup.

As for goal scoring, what do you expect? If we ever felt that this team would be a high scoring team, then we should expect more out of them, but keeping pucks out became the new focus of the team. We all know who can score and who can't on a regular basis, and for the most part the pattern is what we should have expected.

But, since this is Vancouver, and someone has to be at fault when we're not winning the division, I would put the blame at the coach's feet for not giving Naslund decent (Cooke, Morrison) linemates on a regular basis. Perhaps in the next quarter this may come to pass, but until then I think were going to see the same results. Partial blame can be given to Nonis for once again going so close the the cap that he is left with no options for player movement.

The players are working hard most nights (and a lot harder than we saw the last 2 years of Crawford's time) and are learning a new system. They get the benefit of a doubt.... for now.
Over 40 years of pain - I just want one day of glory.
User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
 
Posts: 4578
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Chester, NE

Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:44 pm

Cornuck wrote:I don't see a problem with this team, really. After a long overdue housecleaning, we are a team in transition. After some trades were made and the team came together, everyone here expected the team to miss the playoffs - or at best sneak in to 8th spot. People also said we would do ok if we didn't have the injury problems like last year.

As for goal scoring, what do you expect? If we ever felt that this team would be a high scoring team, then we should expect more out of them, but keeping pucks out became the new focus of the team. We all know who can score and who can't on a regular basis, and for the most part the pattern is what we should have expected.
The players are working hard most nights (and a lot harder than we saw the last 2 years of Crawford's time) and are learning a new system. They get the benefit of a doubt.... for now.


From the very beginning we all knew that lack of depth on the blueline was going to be an issue as well as reduced scoring output because of the Bertuzzi/Carter departure (say what you will about them now, but they accounted for a number of points last season).

Having said that, Luongo has not shut the door as he could have the past 5-6 games. AV has pointed this out, and for some reason Luongo isn't doing what we all know he is capable of. Cause for concern? Panic? Of course not. Luongo will bounce back but a couple of big saves when we needed them and Mitchell back and I believe the team will start winning some games.

dp
VANCOUVER'S SEXIEST BROADCASTER AND COUGAR HUNTER

*OPINIONS EXRESSED ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHOR, AND THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF ©BELL MEDIA*

WATCH THE DAVID PRATT SHOW W/BRO JAKE 6-10 AM, M-F ON THE TEAM 1040
User avatar
DavidPratt_
MVP
MVP
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:55 pm
Location: Yaletown

Re: Is this a case of AV or a DN problem child

Postby yammi » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:17 pm

Fred wrote:DN signing of Chouinard, Santala, Cooke Bulis and Fitzpatrick, ham strung him and preventing him with other opportunities.


ON COOKE
I don't like any of those signings Fred, except that I wouldn't include Cooke in that group.

I like Cooke a lot and wonder if people wouldn't be so hard on him in this forum if his salary was about 300 or 400k lower.

Cooke has never been an offensive force, but he does provide something intangible and valuable to the team when he plays the "spark plug" role.

It's easy to overlook that, but when Cooke is out of the lineup with an injury, often the team spirit and determination sags ... and many people start saying things like "boy do we ever miss Matt Cooke."

Back in the days when he was underpaid, we loved him ... now that makes a few hundred K more than he should, people want him shipped out.

That, I think, is the way it will always be for players who make important but intangible contributions, but ones that are less visible than offensive numbers.

ON THE OTHERS
That said, what the hell was DN thinking in the off-season when he was talking about Santala coming in and being a real contributor?! I'd like to know who the pro scout is that gave him that idea. The now-departed Bob Murray would not have misled him like that.

My buddies who are Habs fans have all told me that they predicted Bulis being a non-factor here (just as he was sometimes a regular in the press-box) ... again nice work by the pro scouts to give Bulis the big thumbs up as a potential 1st liner.

The Chouinard 2-year multimillion $ contract is a mystery ... that's money we won't have next season to keep valuable guys like Salo ... shouldn't the pro scouts have tipped DN off that this guy is a soft Minnesota cast-off and definitely not a face-off specialist like we were led to believe?

Fitzpatrick is a fringe guy, and I like what I saw from Sean Brown down the stretch last season better than Fitzpatrick's play so far. I wonder if Brown is bad attitude guy that they just wanted dump? Personally I'm happy that Fitzpatrick out of the line-up ... he makes costly mistakes and I would rather see his playing time go to Edler (and even Coloumbe).

Bottomline: This team has a lot of changes to adapt to ... new coach, new system, new players. But I sure question some of DN's signings. Whoever the pro scouts are that advised him about these signings should be given notice that they're not performing anywhere close to the level that Bob Murray did while he was here, and that they better get their shit together soon or find some other place to work.
yammi
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:57 am
Location: Vancouver

Postby Fred » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:13 pm

I like Cooke a lot and wonder if people wouldn't be so hard on him in this forum if his salary was about 300 or 400k lower.


But that's the problem with the Canucks right now their fringe players such as Cooke are being paid to much, Keslers' another one they take up huge poritions of the Cap as has Bulis and Chouinard , US$ 5.5 between them. Fitzpatrick is a players that is being paid the right amount for this Cap system.

Ask your self this has Santala's contribution been only 25% of Kesler or 50% of Cookes..

Thats the question considering all the aspect of the Game, strategy, pay roll, effort or skill which one is wanting.

Is Rypen better than Cooke probably not but we could save a million
Is Schultz/hansen better than Bulis probably not but we could save another Million
Can Greene do Keslers job possibly not as well but we could save yet another bundle

There's a lot of chump change which combined means we could have picked up a better D than Fitzpatrick or a betterforward than Chouinard.

We're hog tied right now by these players
cheers
Fred
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Postby Broda » Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:44 pm

Well i watched the game last night and for the most part i like what i saw from most of the players... I think this team can make a push for the playoffs this year but things are going to have to be figured out pretty quick. I understand that this is only our first game under five hundred but if this team can't start scoreing another goal or so a game we might be in very tough this year.

As much as i don't like the idea of putting all the eggs in one basket, this team needs a top line. and the only way i see that happening is if the Naslund Sedins line stays together. They look like they have tremendous chemistry, so many beautiful passes every game. The one thing this line needs to do though is get more shots off. The shots that they are getting are very good quality but they need to be a bit quicker about things. I think all three of them are trying to make that last pass for a little tip in or what not and as much as i like those goals i think they need to be a few more chances. They do seem extremely dangerous though.

But players like Morrison who played very well last night, cooke.. who played well aswell.. almost tied it at the end. And Kesler who i didn't see do too much, which is not what i think he needs to be doing this year. He seemed like last year he was going to be a really good player for our team in the coming years.. but it seems so far that he has changed course to being a third line checker again. he needs to find the net more especially if we are paying him 1.9 million this year. Bulis is the other guy who needs to be producing. Last year he scored 20 goals in a checking and limited minutes role. He is one guy on the team who should be leading the second line. I know he isn't really and offensive dynamo but he needs to be playing better. Better shots and winning more battles. To me he seems like Vancouvers Christian Huesilius.. sbelling... He has the tools to do well but just can't put it together consistently.

The other guy on this team who needs to be much better is that guy we pay 6.5 million a season. At the start of the year when we played Detroit, Luongo looked brilliant. He looked like the guy that every team in the nhl besides Calgary and Jearsey were druling over. Now he insn't playing any better than Auld or Cloutier could at there mediocore... last night if he played as well as Kipprusof we would have won that game two one if not a shut out. He needs to be better. He is the anchor on this team. as many people have said this year as Luongo goes so does this canucks team. Lets face it, the canucks can realistically only be hopeful for 2 or 3 goals a game on average this year. So we need Luongo to be the best goalie in the NHL every time he steps infront of that net. I think this team can win the tight games this year, like a game like last night the canucks should have won. They played a very solid game. and if it wasn't for Kipprusof we probably could have scored another goal or so.

I know its just been a bit of a tough patch for Luongo but if he doesn't come out of it soon people are going to be talking goalie graveyard again soon. His save percentage has been dreadful the last 5 or 6 games.

I just hope this team can bounce back. They played a much better game against calgary and i think they had alot of positives coming from that game. So hopefully they can atleast break out of there slump and win the next one. They had a very good start to the season considering all the new personel so lets get this ship afloat again. and don't worry guys i know its not the end of the world for this team. IM still very hopeful they can figure things out
User avatar
Broda
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:35 am
Location: Vancity

Postby Arbour » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:46 pm

This is a personnel problem, so I suppose the blame lies somewhat with Nonis. He gambled last year and stuck with the status quo, overpaid for certain players, and as a result is left with a bit of a hangover, which has been aggravated by the lack of effective drafting of offensive talent under the Burke regime. Time will tell if he is able to remedy the situation.

Nonis did well to move Bertuzzi and Cloutier, but is stuck with Morrison, who is over payed, as is Cooke. He then gambled on Pyatt, Bulis, Chouinard and Santala, agreeing to questionable contracts with the latter two. Bobby Clarke did him no favors with Kessler, and suddenly Nonis is in a situation that requires a similar salary dump in order to make any type of trade.

While Naslund is a premier player, a team with little or no offensive talent, can ill afford to have any player with a no trade clause, albeit again a leftover from the Burke era. Nonis did not move Jovo, even though it was apparent from day one last year that he was most likely lose him to free agency, so he failed to get any return in the way of depth for a player he was ultimately going to lose, which may hurt him in the long run.

As far as the most recent personnel is concerned, it appears Nonis has gambled on at least one of two assumptions being true. Either Nonis has assumed the Sedins are offensively gifted enough to carry this team, like the WCE did in previous years, (a questionable decision since the twins are not prolific goal scorers) or the Sedin's line will contribute as they always have, and the rest of the team will provide secondary scoring making up for the lack of a first line such as the former WCE. Unfortunately for Nonis, either scenario has yet to pan out, and the lack of scoring is exacerbated by the injuries on defense.
Arbour
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:54 pm


Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], BurningBeard, Google [Bot], hist, Island Nucklehead, jackalman and 3 guests