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Postby cerios » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:01 pm

The upside to them playing here and now is that it allows us to ice the best team possible. That is a statement to what is waiting in the wings down on the farm - a sad one at that.


This is a stupid statement, there are literally DOZENS of defenseman that can make as much of a contribution as these 2 kids right now... All over Russia and Europe their are guys that are easily available who could contribute better. The best possible decision that can be made for the future of the club is to actually rotate through some of these guys and see if anyone takes advantage of the opportunity.

Don't believe me? Look up some of these names, and realize that most of these guys are either freely available or would be extremely easy to obtain the rights to:

Janne Niskala - a good two way defenseman just entering his prime that plays for the finish national team. Property of Nashville, would be very easy to swing a trade for this guy.

Andreas Holmqvist - Property of Tampa Bay, would again be just as good as either of the kids and would be easy to get.

Kimmo Lotvonen - a good solid veteran D man that would be better then our #5 or #6 guy this year at least.

These are just a few of the euros who never get noticed for the kind of game that would fit nicely over here. If the canucks had the kind of global scouting coverage like Detroit, and New Jersey we would know about some of these guys. Hell if we had the kind of scouting that Manchester United has we would probably have 20 Edlers - not that I don't realize that's impossible but saying that these two will any any significant way make the team better is just simply stupid. Edler might have a shot at making the team slightly better, as hes only played one game its kind of hard to judge that but he hasn't exactly been tearing up the AHL so I have a tendency to think he just played a very good game. But Bordoun? who are we kidding, this kids not ready for the bigs by a long shot quite frankly by probably 2 years. Next year Koltsov will be back and in all probability our best defenseman, hes certainly the most skilled guy in the organization at this point so why rush all these guys? People didn't want to rush kids in 3 years ago when we actually had a legitimate shot at a cup when they clearly deserved to be here but now that they don't and we have no shot everyone wants to bring them up? This is the kind of ass backwards thinking that the best teams in the league avoid.

The most painful thing in all of this is how much worse the drafting of Bordoun looks when you consider how much of our current crop of prospects is heavily wieghed towards the defence as it is.

Consider this: In 5 years we will have Koltsov, Edler, Bordoun, Bieksa, and Krajicek will all just be entering their prime. That's if we don't find ourselves without another quality defenseman between now and then (a near impossibility). How much better would it have looked to draft Kopitar now?
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Postby WCE » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:50 pm

cerios wrote:
The upside to them playing here and now is that it allows us to ice the best team possible. That is a statement to what is waiting in the wings down on the farm - a sad one at that.


This is a stupid statement, there are literally DOZENS of defenseman that can make as much of a contribution as these 2 kids right now... All over Russia and Europe their are guys that are easily available who could contribute better. The best possible decision that can be made for the future of the club is to actually rotate through some of these guys and see if anyone takes advantage of the opportunity.


Are these proposed players not under contract with Euro teams at the moment?

Thus making your point moot?

;)

If you want to talk about a flaw in our management for not securing one of these players beforehand, I can agree with you.

BUT, we were talking about the upside of playing the young guys right now. They are the best players we can ice at the moment from within our system.

Blame Nonis for not making a trade to grab a guy like Montador, sure. But talking about signing Euro players who are now under contractual agreements that legally bind them to other teams is a hindsight comment and has nothing to do with the point I was making.

As "Stupid" as it may have been to you.
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Postby Madcombinepilot » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:07 pm

The most painful thing in all of this is how much worse the drafting of Bordoun looks when you consider how much of our current crop of prospects is heavily wieghed towards the defence as it is.


Gosh. We have a kid who is a great prospect that is coming of a major injury, and he is not playing like a 10 year star player????

I guess I should load my AK-47, and start looking for a post office....
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Postby cerios » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:28 pm

Are these proposed players not under contract with Euro teams at the moment?

Thus making your point moot?


Hardly, these are three guys I named off the top of my head that could be obtained through transfer agreements easily enough. Just because its not normally done in the NHL doesn't make it impossible. I am sure if I was to spend some time scouring I could find a few unattached players regardless.

While I don't feel confident enough in my knowledge of other teams prospect list to start rattling off names I am very confident that a thorough search around the league would come up with some available veteran talent that could fill in better then either kid and that's only if you actually prescribe to the theory that you should be looking for what is best this year, personally I tend to ask the question what would be best 3-5 years down the road.

I also don't see how you could make the claim that Bourdon is going to contribute more then just about anyone. He is simply not even close to ready and has been horrible so far. This isn't a matter of finding someone good, its a matter of finding someone who isn't very bad.

Gosh. We have a kid who is a great prospect that is coming of a major injury, and he is not playing like a 10 year star player????

I guess I should load my AK-47, and start looking for a post office....


What does the potential of Bordoun have to do with anything? I think he has very good potential hes just not even close to ready but how much more intelligent would the drafting of Kopitar have been at this point? Obviously their are people that are unwilling to admit it(boggle) but yes a budding superstar Kopitar would have obviously been the better choice over a career potential #2 defenseman in Bordoun. The availability of Kopitar doesn't make Bordoun a bad prospect but it does make him a bad selection.
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Postby WCE » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:09 pm

cerios wrote:
Are these proposed players not under contract with Euro teams at the moment?

Thus making your point moot?


Hardly, these are three guys I named off the top of my head that could be obtained through transfer agreements easily enough. Just because its not normally done in the NHL doesn't make it impossible. I am sure if I was to spend some time scouring I could find a few unattached players regardless.


Again, that isn't what I was arguing. My point was that the upside to them being up was that they are the best players available at this time in our system. Nothing more, nothing less.


I also don't see how you could make the claim that Bourdon is going to contribute more then just about anyone. He is simply not even close to ready and has been horrible so far. This isn't a matter of finding someone good, its a matter of finding someone who isn't very bad.


My statement was that he is better than other options at this point in time with what is in the system. A guy like Sean Brown or Montador would be better, I argee. Again though, that was not the point I was making.
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Postby Jovorock » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:45 am

Edler has played very good in these two games, but he needs more time with the Moose. Last year he would make a major defensive mistake every game in Kelowna.

He learned so much under a defensive system with the Rockets, but he needs at least one year in the AHL. Plays like Modano getting around him for a brakeaway last night shows he isn't ready for the speed of the NHL. He's playing great but needs time with the Moose.
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Postby Linden Is God » Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:52 am

Jovorock wrote:Edler has played very good in these two games, but he needs more time with the Moose. Last year he would make a major defensive mistake every game in Kelowna.

He learned so much under a defensive system with the Rockets, but he needs at least one year in the AHL. Plays like Modano getting around him for a brakeaway last night shows he isn't ready for the speed of the NHL. He's playing great but needs time with the Moose.


But you have to admit, in his short time he's looked better then Bourdon. Also it's nice to see that Edler has played this well, and could be a reliable call up.
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