lets be honest kids, Markus Naslund is not an elite player

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Postby Grizzly » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:53 am

Puck wrote:If his heart wasn't in it anymore, he wouldn't be back-checking like he is.


Fair enough ...

... then its either the style of hockey the team's playing or his skills are starting to diminish ... whatever the reason ... I would have to agree with the comment then that he isn't the elite player he once was.

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Postby Badfish » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:24 pm

I don't like all this talk of Nazzy "not being what he used to be".

I tend to agree with previous posters that:

<b>A) </b>He's playing with an injured BMo and a useless (so far) Jan Bulis.

<b>B)</b> He's playing in a much more defensive system, and as the captain has to lead the rest of the team by showing that even an offensively gifted player like himself is willing to backcheck and play defence to help the team win, and it's working. Nazzy has been much better defensively this season, a big change from the run-n-gun WCE style of the crawford era. I think he's adapting quite well actually.

<b>C) </b>Keep in mind it's like 12 GAMES IN! New system, new linemates, not as much ice-time, less PP time and we're already questioning our captain, team leader and soon to be an all-time franchise great.

Sure the Nazzy we're seeing now isn't the nazzy of the 2002 season. He's a few years older and without a big brooding winger to create space for him. His shot is still there, don't know how you can say he lost his wrist shot... he's just not letting it fly as much. I too would like to see some improvment in his offensive side of the game, but considering how much better he is defensivly I'll be patient and hope he finds a balance between the two extremes. Nobody was talking about how he's lost a step while he was on the Sedin line.

I think Naslund, just like the rest of the team, will get better as the season progresses, adjusting to the new system, style of play, and line partners.

That being said, I think 6 mill is a steep price tag in the new cap era, and if he was up for a new contract today he wouldn't get as much, but it's a product of the old NHL, and there's not allot we can do about it. We're paying him 6 mil because thats what it cost to keep him when we had to resign him. If we'd let him walk at that time what would we all have done? Screamed and bitched and moaned. It's a price we had to pay to keep him. personally, unless the team looks like it's ready to make a run next season, I could see him retiring either at the end of this season or the next, either of which I would be ok with, even thought it pains me to think about it. could get a couple of good 2-3 mil forwards to help our forward ranks.
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Postby JamesOwnzSam11 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:23 pm

supercanuck wrote:
JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:2. Yzerman stayed way too long...just as bad as Messier, except he doesn't get it much since the Red Wings carried him to the playoffs.


Yzerman was the heart and soul of Detroit, even in his last year on the team. I'd rather have last year's Yzerman on my team than any of Messier's years in Vancouver.



Then you're a fool.

The 99-00 team was better then the 05-06 team....the Canucks missed the playoffs by about 3 points that year and look at all the injuries they had...

Messier had 54 points in what...66 games? So he'd be close to 70 points there...Is Messier just played...5 of those games the Canucks make the playoffs.
"I think my biggest influence has been Messier."Watching him prepare for games and how seriously he still took everything at his age. A lot of the qualities that he had helped me get better."- Markus Naslund
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Postby mattola » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:56 pm

you have to sacrifice offense to be more of a responsible player. Naslund is doing that. you see it in his backcheck, I think Markus is becoming a better player now than he was in years past. he is playing the puck smart on both sides of the ice. we wont see the points as we are accustomed to but welcome to the new version of the Vancouver Canucks....
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Postby Arbour » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:10 pm

Naslund, but for his defensive play which is commendable, is looking more and more like the player he was in Pittsburgh before Keenan lit a fire under him. Certainly given his reputation he probably attracts a lot more attention now with departure of Bertuzzi. Say what you will about Bert, he was a much better set up man then either Bulis or Morrison, and his mere presence gave Naslund more time to pick his spots.

It is becoming pretty apparent that excluding the Sedins, the Canucks are woefully weak in offensive talent, and frankly even the Sedins are not prolific goal scorers, so on most nights the team will have to outwork the opposition, and rely heavily on defensive play to win games by one or two goals. Unfortunately, given the Mitchell and Salo injuries that task got all the more difficult. Even if they are out for only a week, that could translate into 12 pts. , although with Calgary's anemic offense the Canucks may be able to pull off a win in spite of injuries and lack of scoring.

So what can be done about getting a play making center for Naslund? It makes no sense to continue to have six million dollars worth of salary cap not producing, without at least trying to remedy the situation. There really aren't that many tradeable players on the team. Perhaps a package of Cook and Morrison, that is if anybody wants Morrison at his present price.
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Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:59 am

Markus Naslund is still the best pure goal scorer on our team. Let's be honest, the Sedins can set them up, Daniel has some finish..but when the game is on the line who do I want shooting the puck? Markus Naslund.

The guy is on pace for 35 goals (and on the healthy side of plus/minus, after being so brutal last season) on a very defense-first team. Joe Sakic is on pace for 38...and he dosn't play on as much of a 1A/1B line system we're seeing here in Vancouver. Forsberg at 37, just marginal these days I guess. Daniel Alfredson is on pace for 7, I suppose he's worth a bag of smashed assholes.

Because the guy nearly hit 50 one year, and is down slightly in recent years, to say he's not ELITE is just plain retarded. Even at 6 million, you would still find a plentiful amount of teams to take him off our hands. Maybe the biggest problem is he dosn't fit our system, or his linemates don't help his style of play. He might not fit, but the guy is a bonafide star.

Oh, and just to add my voice/name to the record...Messier sucks. The guy was poor man's wannabe Gordie Howe, the only thing he lacked was talent and heterosexuality.
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Postby JamesOwnzSam11 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:11 am

ANd Yzerman is a poor mans Messier.

and Linden was never anything special.
"I think my biggest influence has been Messier."Watching him prepare for games and how seriously he still took everything at his age. A lot of the qualities that he had helped me get better."- Markus Naslund
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Postby Cookie La Rue » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:24 am

Hey JamesOwnzSam11, it sounds as you are the real MM. :lol:

ps: And face it folks, Nazzy is the heart and soul, maybe just in an emotional way, but he is, even if he's not showing it publicly
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Postby Badfish » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:31 pm

JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:ANd Yzerman is a poor mans Messier.

and Linden was never anything special.


....grounds for banning? :roll:
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Postby JamesOwnzSam11 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:56 am

Got a goal tonight, but if you saw the game which I am guessing most of you did, you would have seen him on that 2 on 1 with the less then steller wrist shot.

I'm pretty sure he's lost it.
"I think my biggest influence has been Messier."Watching him prepare for games and how seriously he still took everything at his age. A lot of the qualities that he had helped me get better."- Markus Naslund
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Postby rockalt » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:42 am

JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:Got a goal tonight, but if you saw the game which I am guessing most of you did, you would have seen him on that 2 on 1 with the less then steller wrist shot.

I'm pretty sure he's lost it.


Hate to say it but I was thinking the exact same thing during that play. I haven't seen him unleash a nasty wrister all season long which is a shame because it was a thing of beauty to watch. That rush was a perfect time to unleash it but it just wasn't there.

I think Naslund's still a lock for 30 goals maybe 40 even but it won't be accomplished in dominating fashioin a la 2002-2003. He just doesn't look like the top 5 player he once was.
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Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:11 am

JamesOwnzSam11 wrote:Got a goal tonight, but if you saw the game which I am guessing most of you did, you would have seen him on that 2 on 1 with the less then steller wrist shot.

I'm pretty sure he's lost it.


The puck ended up in the net, didn't it? I don't see how 35 goals with a wrist shot, or 35 goals with a slap shot means anything different. To me, the fact he has diversified his shot counts is something to be looked upon positively. One game he will use that wrister for a hatty, and then everyone will crow at how amazing his wrist shot has always been.

People, the puck is going in the net...that's what he's paid to do so let's let him do it. If he wasn't producing it'd be one thing, but to say he's lost his wrist shot because he's scoring on slap/snap shots seems pretty silly to me.
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Postby Sid Dithers » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:21 pm

Is Nazzy a cutting-edge player in this league these days? No, he's not. Its very obvious he's tailed off a little. It happens to the best of them. Injuries have seemingly added to the toll. He's still an excellent player and his skills are largely intact, but circumstances have eroded his overall package somewhat. I don't believe he's capable of scoring 40 goals anymore; in fact I don't believe he'll get 30 this season. As this season moves along, and secondary scoring isn't adequate, the pressure of being a go-to guy will wear on him. He benefitted for years from the space that Bert provided. On a large number of those wrist-shot goals, Bert was parked right in front of the goalie. And Nazzy knew how to make use of the extra attention that the opposition gave to Bert (not that I'm cutting Bert any slack, of course). Nazzy was/is very cagey. But the fact remains that he doesn't have the tools to work with that he once did. Does that mean his 6 mill/year is bad value for the Canucks? I think it does; he's about a 4.5 mill player.
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Postby Grizzly » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:35 pm

Sure the Nazzy we're seeing now isn't the nazzy of the 2002 season. He's a few years older and without a big brooding winger to create space for him.

I think 6 mill is a steep price tag in the new cap era, and if he was up for a new contract today he wouldn't get as much,


I think thats what we are trying to say Badfish ... at least I am ....

Markus Naslund is still the best pure goal scorer on our team. Let's be honest, the Sedins can set them up, Daniel has some finish..but when the game is on the line who do I want shooting the puck? Markus Naslund.


Even if his skills have diminished ... whether it be age or whatever ... I would agree that he is still the best pure goal scorer on the team. Time for some other guys to step up though as I am betting he will be gone in two years when his contract is up.

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Postby Badfish » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:33 pm

Grizzly wrote:
I think 6 mill is a steep price tag in the new cap era, and if he was up for a new contract today he wouldn't get as much,


I think thats what we are trying to say Badfish ... at least I am ....


Yea, and I understand that point of view, but the second half of that quote of mine was that 6 mil was what it cost us to keep him when he was up for a new contract. Sure if he was up for a new contract tomorrow hewouldn't be getting 6 mil, maybe closer the 4.5 mentioned above. Had we let him walk because we hadn't offered him the new big contract at the time we all would've lost our minds.

Sure he's not 100% of the player he was for us when he WAS worth 6 mil, but there's not allot we could do about it, it's kinda what it takes to keep your franchise player around. We had no idea Luongo was headed our way at the time ;)

So I know I ramble allot, but what I'm trying to say here is that we shouldn't hold his contract against him. I don't like all this negative talk lately, and when it comes to naslund, it really bugs me. This guy is our Captain, team leader, the heart and soul of our team for the past few years. He's still producing, and he's still top-line material on any team in the league. He's been a class-act, and I personally am glad that we've got him on our team, it looks like he'll retire a canuck, and as one of our all-time greatest.
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