Dancin' Anson's new low tonight

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Postby ClamRussel » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:17 am

tantalum wrote:Fitzpatrick has been fine IMO. He made some mistakes but you expect mistakes to be made by the #6/7 guy...especially when he fills in as a #5 guy. He's certainly better than what we'd be seeing with baumgartner. For a guy getting 15 minutes a night he's doing just fine. That isn't to say I don;t think the blueline could be strengthened it absolutely could and it would be nice to see Fitzpatrick as the #7 guy on a healthy blueline. But he'd done his job better than expected early on, so no complaints from me.

Ohlund...now there is a guy who has to crank it up.


Tant, usually you're a pretty level headed guy...and I've tried to stay out of this debate lately....but clearly your bias against Baumgartner is clouding your judgment. Forget about how Baumer may or may not be playing on a Flyers club in complete disarray...if you consider how he played here last year with an open mind you'll realize how absurd your comment is. The only blemish that Nolan had last year was at the end of the season when our blueline was depleted....so he comes back to play in the top 4 with a BROKEN FOOT. Until that injury he was a very solid no. 5 guy for us and we clearly miss him on the 2nd PP unit. He had a great complimentary thing going there w/ Ohlund & the Sedins. Fitzpatrick, save some ill-timed penalties tonight, has indeed been fine on the blueline but "certainly better than Baumgartner"? Give me a break.

Agreed on Ohlund.
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Postby tantalum » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:39 am

ClamRussel wrote:Tant, usually you're a pretty level headed guy...and I've tried to stay out of this debate lately....but clearly your bias against Baumgartner is clouding your judgment. Forget about how Baumer may or may not be playing on a Flyers club in complete disarray...if you consider how he played here last year with an open mind you'll realize how absurd your comment is. The only blemish that Nolan had last year was at the end of the season when our blueline was depleted....so he comes back to play in the top 4 with a BROKEN FOOT. Until that injury he was a very solid no. 5 guy for us and we clearly miss him on the 2nd PP unit. He had a great complimentary thing going there w/ Ohlund & the Sedins. Fitzpatrick, save some ill-timed penalties tonight, has indeed been fine on the blueline but "certainly better than Baumgartner"? Give me a break.

Agreed on Ohlund.


I'm not biased at all. Baumgartner had one decent year in the NHL. A year when he turned 30. In the previous 9 years of Pro he played a whopping 43 games. History would suggest it was an aberration and the result of playing on a blueline lacking depth. In training camp, the pre-season and the season this year he is proving that it was just that, an aberration.

But it doesn't really matter how he played last year in all honesty (and you overrate his play I think to begin with...decent PP skills but constantly outmuscled in the defensive end), how he is playing this year is what matters and he has played poorly. He has played how hie ha historically played..good enough for the occassional callup but that's about it. He has been worse than Fitzpatrick, even with Fitzpatricks ill-timed penalties and poorer play at times. It's true Clam. I'm sorry but it is true. If Baumgartner was looked at as a decent #5 option around the league he would have been picked up...teams with cap space need help on the blueline and for a solid #5 guy you suggest he is he would have been snapped up. A bit over a million dollars isn't too much to take on to solidify the #5 spot with a guy who can supposedly step into a #4 role when injuries hit. But no one did that. Instead he's playing in the minors. Or is that just because he wasn't given a fair shot on the Flyers? Sort of like Holden and Druken I guess eh Clam. How about we agree to disagree on this one?
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Postby ClamRussel » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:22 pm

tantalum wrote:I'm not biased at all. Baumgartner had one decent year in the NHL. A year when he turned 30. In the previous 9 years of Pro he played a whopping 43 games. History would suggest it was an aberration and the result of playing on a blueline lacking depth. In training camp, the pre-season and the season this year he is proving that it was just that, an aberration.

But it doesn't really matter how he played last year in all honesty (and you overrate his play I think to begin with...decent PP skills but constantly outmuscled in the defensive end), how he is playing this year is what matters and he has played poorly. He has played how hie ha historically played..good enough for the occassional callup but that's about it. He has been worse than Fitzpatrick, even with Fitzpatricks ill-timed penalties and poorer play at times. It's true Clam. I'm sorry but it is true. If Baumgartner was looked at as a decent #5 option around the league he would have been picked up...teams with cap space need help on the blueline and for a solid #5 guy you suggest he is he would have been snapped up. A bit over a million dollars isn't too much to take on to solidify the #5 spot with a guy who can supposedly step into a #4 role when injuries hit. But no one did that. Instead he's playing in the minors. Or is that just because he wasn't given a fair shot on the Flyers? Sort of like Holden and Druken I guess eh Clam. How about we agree to disagree on this one?


Whatever it takes to make your case. How would Fitzpatrick look on that Flyers team right about now? Don't turn this around, its not about a player getting a "fair shot." so I don't know why you'd go there or even bring up players like Holden or Druken. Since when did I ever take a stance on Druken not getting a shot? So why don't we stick with the issue at hand instead of making false implications. You said Fitzpatrick is better than Baumgarnter would be....ie would be ON the Canucks so ya it DOES matter whats happening in Philly. Fitzpatrick has never been a mainstay either, his most games played in a season being 60 and has NEVER had a PLUS season (career -48). Every season Baumer played in Van was a PLUS season (+18 over 3 yrs). Comparing role players is rediculous especially two who have totally different attributes. You bring up Baumer's deficiencies in his own end...as if Fitzpatrick doesn't have any in the offensive end. All this does is prove at the very least you under-rate what Baumgartner brings to the table. By saying he was "constantly outmuscled in the defensive end" is not "true" and does indeed reveal your bias against him. I don't over-rate him in the slightest by suggesting he could contribute to our 2nd PP unit & play on the 3rd pairing. I'm not down on Fitzpatrick, I realize what he brings and he's cheap. The Canucks have trouble scoring and to say Baumgartner's puck moving ability would be a contribution to this team is reasonable. Who would be "better" depends on what you're looking for in a player.
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Postby Sid Dithers » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:07 pm

1. Carter certainly did benefit playing with Danrik last year.
2. He'll be back knocking on Nonis' door next summer methinks.
AraChniD iS stoOpiDz!
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