Scoring woes - One line team ??

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Grizzly
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Scoring woes - One line team ??

Post by Grizzly » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:56 am

From what I have seen this year I think the Nucks defence looks prettysolid although as mentioned by some if we do sustain any major injuries we could be in some trouble. For now though we can leave that ... as far as offence goes ...

I thought in the game last nite against Dallas we generated some decent scoring chances but clearly (to me anyways) it seems there are only a few players that actually have a gift of knowing how to really bury the puck ... the rest seem to just bang away at it.

Its possible I guess to have two decent scoring lines if Naslund, MO & Bulis can generate some chemistry (Sedins obviously the other line) but once AV put Naslund on the Sedin line it took away a major skill component of that second line. Almost looks like then we have 3 plugger lines.

Anyways just trying to localize a thread to generate some discussion as far as peoples thoughts on our scoring abilities and line combinations ... is it an issue we will face all year or will some of our younger guys really start stepping up?? Sure wish we could get that gem in the rocks that turns out to be a real gunner ... other than Bure we never really have.

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Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:53 am

This team is by far more of a one-line team than in the past Bert-Mo-Nas, Sedin-Sedin-whoever, set up. Even before Carter, the Sedins showed some flash that could point to them being great one day. This team I don't see much of that at all. I see a second line that has traditional third liners on it. Much like the D, DN took many chances this year in the hopes that players played better than they had in the past, in some cases (mostly on D), this is happening, in others it is not. Three goals should be enough to win us more games than we lose, and I can see the Naslund-Sedin line getting us one of those three, but as far as the other three lines producing...it's basically a coin toss.

I think more AV has to put some more pressure on the bottom two lines to do something. We NEED those hardworking, dump, plug and grind goals. The D is stepping up, it's time for the forwards like Morrison, Kesler and Cooke to sink or swim.

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Post by MarkMM » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:43 am

Yeah, Naslund can generate offense, and so can the Sedins, obviously they're dominant when you put them together, but we're not going to survive long based on that and this team was built around the idea of depth, having the defensive ability to hold other teams at bay and then roll line after line that individually may not be dominant, but each dangerous, until the opponent eventually relents and we get through. Not going to happen with the Swedish Touch.

The thing is that chemistry takes time to develop, while Crow was guilty of keeping things together even after it was clearly not working, we need to keep things together long enough that they get a chance to work. By giving things a chance, I mean not just a shift or two, but at least a few games, where they can try things, and not be worried that if it doesn't work out, they've just lost their chance at making the top six. So it's a matter of choosing which lines to try, and then sticking with it.

Naslund and Morrison and the Sedins are the making of the top two lines, Bulis has the speed to work with NasMo and the cycling ability to work with the Sedins, either Pyatt or Kesler can use their size and speed to create room a la poor-man's Bertuzzi with Naslund and Morrison, but only Pyatt has the finishing ability of those two to work with the Sedins. Cooke has worked once with NasMo, so why not try it again.

Here were some suggestions I liked:

Naslund - Morrison - Bulis
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Pyatt
Cooke - Kesler - Burrows
Green - Chouinard - Linden

Naslund - Morrison - Cooke
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Bulis
Pyatt - Kesler - Burrows
Green - Chouinard - Linden

Naslund - Morrison - Pyatt
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Bulis
Cooke - Kesler - Burrows
Green - Chouinard - Linden

Naslund - Morrison - Kesler
D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Bulis
Pyatt - Chouinard - Cooke
Burrows - Green - Linden
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Post by MarkMM » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:48 am

Also, mid-way through the season if things don't improve, or even if we get two scoring lines but the bottom six just isn't contributing, we might want to look at bringing up a guy like Reid as our 13th forward, tossing him in whenever we need an injection of offense for the bottom six. Rypien might play that role when he gets back and we let go of Santala, but he might be another grinder when we need someone who can generate offensive ability (hopefully Reid will be working on his finish with the Moose, but even if that's not much improved, his ability to spark something might be all that we need for someone like Cooke or Burrows on the bottom two lines to pop in).

Actually, if Cooke doesn't pick it up, I might consider trading him for someone who can either score, or more likely given that he's overpaid, doing a salary dump (we could get a decent pick or a prospect, but it would clearly be a salary dump) and maybe replace him with Rypien (he can pull it off for maybe $1 million less, otherwise Bouck), and that'd give a guy like Reid or maybe Hansen later on in the season (Schultz as well?) to get some big time.
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Post by Kel » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:50 am

As I've noted in the GDT last night, I'm a bit concerned about Naslund's deterioating skill level. He used to be able to score goals by picking corners with his wrister, and I don't see any of that this season. Furthermore, he actually looked slow when carrying the puck into the zone.

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Post by Arbour » Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:20 pm

Beyond the Sedins and Naslund this team really doesn't have any pure goal scorers at the forward position. In fact it is even arguable whether the Sedins fall in that category, although if Daniel continues to score at his present pace, he may develop into such a player. Secondly, other than the former three players, there are no forwards who are notable for their puck handling ability. What the Sedins do with stick handling, other Canuck forward lines try to do with hard work and tenacity, and unfortunately the finish seems to elude them.

Pyatt is benefiting from the Sedins puck control and with his success may gain confidence and develop into a decent acquisition. Every now and then Kessler will make a surprising move, but he doesn't seem able to translate that into goals. As far a Bulis goes, he is an above average skater, and has a decent shot, but for whatever reason appears satisfied to be almost a perimeter player and as a result is less than effective in the opposition zone. Frankly, if he doesn't get more involved, I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him moved.

I have never been a Morrison fan, and am of the opinion his success was as a result of his line mates, much like Carter. He has yet to earn his money, and if the right deal came along he could join Bulis. Cook works hard and hits, something I wish other Canuck checking forwards would do more of, but lacks finish, which on this team makes him expendable. The rest of the forward lineup is almost interchangeable, with the exception of Santala, who is a complete waste of time and should be waived in favor of a Moose tryout. Hansen and/or Reid comes to mind..

While it is still early in the season, Phoenix, Philly, Boston and Columbus may be potential trading partners, although it is doubtful that Philadelphia will be willing to part with any of their prospects, since it appears they may be going into a full rebuilding mode. If Nonis is going to trade anyone, hopefully he does it while the Canucks are in the plus column in respect to wins, rather than at a time when it is motivated by an attempt to shore up a losing team.

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Post by Grizzly » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:29 pm

The other thing you have to throw in the mix affecting offence, something I was thinking last nite watching the game, is the loss of Jovo and Baumer. Both those guys jumped in well on the PP ...

I thought the power play last nite was pretty bland ... showing up in the stats too as they are ranked 22nd. ... not much creativity and puck possession in the Dallas zone was a bit of an issue. Scary at times when it was back on the point as well. Salo is decent as he has a good shot but Ohlund is IMO not overly quick and therefore at times is reluctant to jump in in fear of not getting back. Bieska a nice surprise but he isn't Neidermayer or Pronger back their either.

I think we are going to find this year that the goals the Nucks score for the most part are going to have to come from sheer hard work ... if the guys take a nite off ... well simply put ... they won't win unless Luongo plays like he is in the top three tenders in the league.

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Post by Antony » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:36 pm

The trouble as I see it is, outside of the obvious guys, there is no creativity, no imagination just dump and chasers which you need, sure, but not to dominate 3 lines. What's down on the farm? Seems to me this team is crying out for a Brandon Reid-type, a guy with speed and imagination. This team needs some creativity outside of the Sedins. There must be a couple of guys around who can supllement/compliment the brusers. No

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Post by gobi » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:30 pm

I think it's high time we start giving our prospects a chance in the forward position. It's not as it some of our offensive stars are producing. The people I have been most disappointed with so far are Cooke, Morrison, and Kesler. I wouldn't mind DN attempting to trade one of these players. I know Kesler is not tradeable this year but if he doesn't pick it up, I will either snowball him on a longer term deal or trade him in the offseason. Maybe throw in the rights to Noronen for a package deal. I would like to give Hansen a chance to see how he fares.

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Post by WCE » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:30 pm

Which prospects are you thinking of Gobi?

Hate to break it down like this, but this team does not have a glut of promising young offensive players. We may have a lucky gem in Hansen, but he is still very raw and IMO not ready for the big time.

We don't have a lot of options, rookie or veteran, and what you see is what you get.

Vino has a mix bag of of forwards in Pyatt, Morrison, Cooke, Bulis, etc that aren't real top 6 players, though you could make a case for Morrison...Though he isn't able to carry a line by himself.

He has to try and squeeze blood from a stone in a sense, and figure out a combination that will work with our sure-fire goal-scorers in the twins and Naslund.

Personally I perfer the Pyatt with the Sedins, and then a rotation of Cooke/Bulis/Kesler on the wing with Nazzy and Mo depending on who has their legs going on a given night.


PS - the rights to Noronen equate to sqaut nothing. It's like offering up the rights to the tooth fairy.
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Post by rikster » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:33 pm

Which prospects are you thinking of Gobi
Well here I sit listening to the Moose game on the radio and a kid named Jaffray has scored 4 goals in the game....

I think if you look around the team finally has some skilled prospects who are making an impact for the teams they are currently playing for...

Take care...

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Post by sic puppy » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:06 pm

Kel wrote:As I've noted in the GDT last night, I'm a bit concerned about Naslund's deterioating skill level. He used to be able to score goals by picking corners with his wrister, and I don't see any of that this season.
5 G/4A in first 10 games 03/04. 7G/6A in first 10 games 05/06. 5G/4A in 10 games this season. Deteriorating skills ? When the comments get to : "He used to be able to score goals", it might be appropriate to say his skill level is deteriorating.

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Post by gobi » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:48 pm

WCE wrote:Which prospects are you thinking of Gobi?
I know the Canucks don't have much in the way of forward prospects. The most obvious choice is Hansen. I wouldn't mind seeing DN trading Cooke away for a draft pick or prospect and let Hansen replace him. Kesler is untradeable for now. I doubt DN can move Morrison as well so it seems DN's hands are tied right now with Cooke being the only movable piece. But next season (yes, I am already thinking that far ahead), I would consider adding Grabner and Simek to the mix if Kesler (and Bulis) does not produce up to expectation this year.

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Post by Kel » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:03 am

smalien wrote:
Kel wrote:As I've noted in the GDT last night, I'm a bit concerned about Naslund's deterioating skill level. He used to be able to score goals by picking corners with his wrister, and I don't see any of that this season.
5 G/4A in first 10 games 03/04. 7G/6A in first 10 games 05/06. 5G/4A in 10 games this season. Deteriorating skills ? When the comments get to : "He used to be able to score goals", it might be appropriate to say his skill level is deteriorating.
That may not be apparent in the numbers, but if you pay attention on how Markus plays over the years, you have to say that he's on a decline at the point of his career, when he looks slow on the ice and shots not accurate. Yes, he still score goals, but how many were out of his patented quick and accurate wrister? None. He scored a few in close when playing with the Sedins, and a slapshot that through traffic. When you talk about Naslund's skill level, the first things you talk about should be speed (with the puck), quick release and shot accuracy, all of them not shown at this point of the season. Yes, you still see the good passes and ability to captialize on easy chances, but in my opinion, he's not going to maintain his scoring pace without his wristers. On the other hand, I'm just concerned; I hope he proves me wrong soon.

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Post by UK Canuck » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:14 am

Kel wrote:
smalien wrote:
Kel wrote:As I've noted in the GDT last night, I'm a bit concerned about Naslund's deterioating skill level. He used to be able to score goals by picking corners with his wrister, and I don't see any of that this season.
5 G/4A in first 10 games 03/04. 7G/6A in first 10 games 05/06. 5G/4A in 10 games this season. Deteriorating skills ? When the comments get to : "He used to be able to score goals", it might be appropriate to say his skill level is deteriorating.
That may not be apparent in the numbers, but if you pay attention on how Markus plays over the years, you have to say that he's on a decline at the point of his career, when he looks slow on the ice and shots not accurate. Yes, he still score goals, but how many were out of his patented quick and accurate wrister? None. He scored a few in close when playing with the Sedins, and a slapshot that through traffic. When you talk about Naslund's skill level, the first things you talk about should be speed (with the puck), quick release and shot accuracy, all of them not shown at this point of the season. Yes, you still see the good passes and ability to captialize on easy chances, but in my opinion, he's not going to maintain his scoring pace without his wristers. On the other hand, I'm just concerned; I hope he proves me wrong soon.





would you trade him at all?
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