Where was the complaining about HNIC when CBC showed 17,18

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Postby MacNews » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:38 pm

orts wrote:...the solution is for people to stop whimpering about "taxpayers' money" and start realizing that paying for culture is as important as paying for any of the other crap that's been mentioned here. I mean, really, more Mounties? That's silly, we've got plenty for our purposes, and it's long been proven that increased policing doesn't cut crime. Or highway improvements? Like we need to encourage more stupid drivers making unnecessary trips in filthy SUVs. On the other hand, we could sure use with a dependable broadly-based venue for the display of canadian arts and culture (which, yes, includes hockey :P).


I used more RCMP and upgraded highways as examples, not supporting the CBC means increased funding for anything or lower taxes. We do have a shortage of RCMP, but I won't go into it. There are more than just 'filthy SUVs' that use highways too but that's also another thread. If you look at PBS in the states, it too receives government funding, but far less of it per capita and it doesn't focus on competing with CBS and ABC.
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Postby orts » Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:12 pm

MacNews wrote:I used more RCMP and upgraded highways as examples, not supporting the CBC means increased funding for anything or lower taxes.


They're both weak examples. Now, if you'd said education and health care, I'd be more onside; but that's partly because, as a teacher in post-Harris Ontario, I'm seeing the terrible effects of slashing education funding[1]. The RCMP has never taken a similar hit. And highways should be paid for proportionately by those who build, fuel, and use automobiles. All that whining about gas taxes earlier this year misses the point.

As for lowering taxes rather than supporting a cultural venue, that just reveals a misplaced bias[2] . You don''t seem to understand that if we put money into arts and culture (even if it is just better bad television, because tv is apparently what everybody wants), everybody's life improves. If we're such a wealthy goddamn society, why do we want to waste all our public cash on advanced weaponry for our armies and police, and on tax cuts for the rich, and on supporting an unsustainable, lazy, isolating autocentric lifestyle? Our priorities are fucked. I'd much rather see our money spent on good hockey programming that I can pick up with my rabbit ears, and on tv adaptations of sentimental Canadian novels that I'll never watch.

[1] A terrible epidemic of comma splices, for example.

[2] And, proportionally to my meagre teaching income, I am certain I personally pay way too much in taxes; but I'm willing to suck it up, because I can remember that my money goes to health care and to the CBC, and because I know who really benefits every time taxes are cut (it ain't people like me).
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Postby BigTuna » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:36 pm

[quote="MacNews"][quote="BigTuna"] Anti-American bias? What the heck are you talking about? I thought it was a well made news program about one cable network in the U.S. You're stretching there buddy.[/quote]

It doesn't matter, you're still off-topic. We're talking HNIC not Fox news.[/quote]

The news programs on CBC was brought up by someone else, and I responded to it so it's not off-topic.

Turning a point i'm making about a well made news program and calling me anti-American, now that's going off topic.
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Postby ververgaert » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:10 pm

Orts is a teacher! God no!

Why do we spend our public money on advanced weaponry for the military and the police?

Gee Orts what the hell do you think? To proctect there lives while they are protecting your right to sit in a cosy classroom and teach our kids to lean to the left.
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Postby orts » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:43 pm

ververgaert wrote:Gee Orts what the hell do you think? To proctect there lives while they are protecting your right to sit in a cosy classroom and teach our kids to lean to the left.



Actually, I spend more time teaching them to use possessives properly.

And because I teach in a university setting, I shouldn't have to be doing that. But thanks to Mike Harris, I do :(

And you're not serious with that response of yours, are you? Looks to me like arms races historically create more enemies than they deter. Just ask Bismarck, the Bushes, and Kim Jong Il. Note that I am in no way against our having a police force; or even an army, if it comes to that; but they should be used in moderation, and to solve problems rather than to cause more (name me a police force, let alone an army, that has always been used in that way, and I'll eat this post :p).
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Postby MacNews » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:01 pm

orts wrote:You don''t seem to understand that if we put money into arts and culture (even if it is just better bad television, because tv is apparently what everybody wants), everybody's life improves.


You're right, I don't understand. How does HNIC improve my life? Or for that matter, 'everybody's' life? It's a hockey show, similar in format to the ones that TSN and SN do. I don't see how since it comes from the public teat, it's golden.
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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:50 pm

ververgaert wrote:Orts is a teacher! God no!

Why do we spend our public money on advanced weaponry for the military and the police?

Gee Orts what the hell do you think? To proctect there lives while they are protecting your right to sit in a cosy classroom and teach our kids to lean to the left.


Hey kids....how did this topic change into discussions about the military and the RCMP?? There's only one thing to remember.....


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Postby MacNews » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:58 pm

Moderators please delete this post.
Last edited by MacNews on Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MacNews » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:58 pm

DavidPratt_ wrote:Hey kids....how did this topic change into discussions about the military and the RCMP??


I used them as alternatives to funding the CBC and it got 'taken out of context'. ;)
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Postby MarkMM » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:21 pm

orts wrote:Note that I am in no way against our having a police force; or even an army, if it comes to that; but they should be used in moderation, and to solve problems rather than to cause more (name me a police force, let alone an army, that has always been used in that way, and I'll eat this post :p).


Not that I want to get in the middle of this, but you've set an impossible standard; show me one of anything that ALWAYS works the way it's supposed to, and we can all go home...I actually work for a number of humanitarian groups, and you're right, it's how things are used, not whether or not we have them, and there are some cases where we could have done more if we had a larger military force; yes, there are socio-ecoomic problems that cause crime and a breakdown of society, but there are certainly valid uses of the police that are not being executed because we don't have enough officers.

As much as there are cases of ridiculous and assinine arms races, there are also cases where a lack of resolve can also lead to an expansion of violence, when people begin to believe they will get away with it.
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Postby JamesOwnzSam11 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:26 am

If TSN gets HNIC they will then have a monopoly...Sportsnet would die.

I don't want to see that happen.
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Postby UK Canuck » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:40 am

i live in england and i get to see hockey night in canada on a channel i pay for on top of my cable package called North American Sports network and i have noticed a big toronto biased in their tv schedule- why dont they just split them equally between the canadian teams? as a canucks fan i find it really frustrating that although i pay extra i dont get to see my beloved canucks.
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Postby cerios » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:51 am

It doesn't matter, you're still off-topic. We're talking HNIC not Fox news.


No we are talking about the value of the CBC which has more to do with news then it does NHIC. Having said that who cares about the hockey coverage? They do as good a job as any other network (better really), and HNIC is not a money losing proposition for them and thus its not a money losing proposition for us.

Orts is a teacher! God no!

Why do we spend our public money on advanced weaponry for the military and the police?

Gee Orts what the hell do you think? To proctect there lives while they are protecting your right to sit in a cosy classroom and teach our kids to lean to the left.


While I agree to a certain extent that Canada's military could use and upgrade, I find it incredibly sad that people think the military can ever make Canada as a whole safer.

You're right, I don't understand. How does HNIC improve my life? Or for that matter, 'everybody's' life? It's a hockey show, similar in format to the ones that TSN and SN do. I don't see how since it comes from the public teat, it's golden.


I don't understand this, people do realize that HNIC as a show is not a money loser right? That while the CBC overall does cost the taxpayers money (although not nearly as much as its made out to be), that HNIC in and of itself doesn't.

Not that I want to get in the middle of this, but you've set an impossible standard; show me one of anything that ALWAYS works the way it's supposed to, and we can all go home...I actually work for a number of humanitarian groups, and you're right, it's how things are used, not whether or not we have them, and there are some cases where we could have done more if we had a larger military force; yes, there are socio-ecoomic problems that cause crime and a breakdown of society, but there are certainly valid uses of the police that are not being executed because we don't have enough officers.


Its more then just a few incidents of "not working like its supposed to at this point", the RCMP has become a largely political entity that has been used by politicians to strike at their enemies, and has acted beyond the pale of simple impropriety in dealing with journalists in particular. The RCMP is maybe the most corrupt institution in Canada (at the top) which is incredibly sad for a institution with such a long, proud, and honorable history. Unfortunately the Military isn't much better, an incredibly overburdened bureaucracy with a horrific soldier/support ratio.

As for the military, I would have agreed with you 80 years ago but in the nuclear age there is no such thing as a large scale conflict. Its pointless to have a large military as their would never be a proper place to use it.

This is of course ignoring the fact that both the Police and the Military are reactive solutions at best and by the time they are useful they are usually the most expensive solutions. It would be far better to actually fix some problems like low social mobility instead of throwing money at the police and Military.

As much as there are cases of ridiculous and assinine arms races, there are also cases where a lack of resolve can also lead to an expansion of violence, when people begin to believe they will get away with it.


I agree, unfortunately lets be realistic, we are entering an age where conventional military solutions are not realistically possible, so we had better find another solution.

i live in england and i get to see hockey night in canada on a channel i pay for on top of my cable package called North American Sports network and i have noticed a big toronto biased in their tv schedule- why dont they just split them equally between the canadian teams? as a canucks fan i find it really frustrating that although i pay extra i dont get to see my beloved canucks.


While I can understand this notion, and I don't understand why there can't be more regional coverage, I think realistically that whether the cause is money or not, their are simply more customers in Ontario alone then in all of Western Canada and while I agree that the west does get shafted on some issues I can't really see this as one of them. It should also be noted there are 3 teams in Western Canada and only 2 in Ontario, and that alone accounts for a considerable amount of the inbalance.
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Postby UK Canuck » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:12 am

thats true but it still should be equal- cos when watching toronto your watching turd hockey anyways.
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Postby JamesOwnzSam11 » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:00 pm

2-3 seasons ago it was pretty much all Leafs and Canucks.

25 Leaf games

18 Canuck...

I didn't hear anyone bitch then.
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