Ryan Kesler signs Offer Sheet with Philadelphia

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Postby Linden Is God » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:29 pm

Harold wrote:
Linden Is God wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:I wonder....can Nonis trade Kesler's rights BEFORE he matches, thus allowing the new team to "match?"

Clarke is an asshole

Kesler is a selfish prick

What has happened is Kesler is now taking ONE million dollars that he has NOT earned , held the Canucks ransom and taken away Nonis' ability to add a player at the deadline. Nonis now has NO wiggle room unless he now trades ANOTHER player (since Kesler is thus untradeable). Good job asshat, nice to know Kesler is the consumate TEAM player. The next Trevor Linden my ass! This should make him a popular guy at the Xmas party.



That's pretty harsh to say. Sure he was asking more then he was worth, but it was Clarke who gave him the offer. If you were offered better money for the same job you're doing at a rival company I would bet you would take it.


Not a good comparison at all.
We aren't hockey players in the sports entertainment business. Most of us could leave our job, and our former bosses could find a comparable employee the very next day. If Kesler signs with Philadelphia, we don't get another Ryan Kesler. Our companies might not be operating precariously close to their maximum budget.

What Kesler has done is hamstrung the ability of his GM to make a trade at the deadline, or to shore up the team if we face injuries again this year. Trevor Linden is a team player and took LESS many than he could have got somewhere else, because he likes the city and he believes in the team concept. Ryan Kesler will be earning double his worth, and hurting the ability of his team to improve, because he obviously does not understand this team concept.


I should have omitted the Linden part, cause yeah I totally agree with that. But how can you blame Kesler for accepting the offer? When it is all said and done, this business is all about money. And especially at his age, why not get the money while you can?

I'm not denying this bites but I truly don't blame Kesler one bit.
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Postby WCE » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:30 pm

Regardless of how the dominoes fall afterward, Nonis has to match the offer and protect his asset. Which is way it is such a dumb move by Clarke, because every GM in the league will match that kind of offer sheet, and all he is doing is inflating the price of a 22 year old, 10 goal scorer for everyone in the league.
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Postby SRsez » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:38 pm

I don't know, VF, that's within $2M of the cap, I don't like it. We still need some bodies.

Gotta admit, Overhardt finally won one on the Canucks.

C'mon, Clam, you didn't know that Clarke was an asshole, or Kesler wasn't a greedy, selfish American (not his fault)?

That's what hockey has become these days.

But let's all look at the last time this happened: where the Canucks property was given an offer sheet, and the Canuck's matched. Nobody ever claimed he was overpaid, despite the howls it was too much at the time for an unproven.

Perhaps this can be the year where Kesler finally lives up to his promise, and pots 15-20. With a new coach, linemates, team outlook, it could happen fairly easily. Lord knows he can't have an attitude problem.

Meers, love the conspiracy theory.

Nonis had no choice but to match.

Oh yeah and Bobby Clarke is a prick. I feel like going & punching Strangelove in the mouth.
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Postby Lancer » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:52 pm

Trade the little prick as part of a package with Philly. I'd be keen to find out what Clarkie was offering this summer. Even if it's just a couple of good prospects, fine, and we can use the cap space elsewhere depending on the package of the deal.

Personally I'd like to see that little punk plastered next time Philly and Vancouver meet. Clarke will get his before too long.
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Postby midknight » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:26 pm

kesler signed the sheet... the canucks can't trade him

they either match it.. and then they again can't trade him for a year
or they let him walk and get the 2nd rounder...
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Postby Harold » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:32 pm

Linden Is God wrote:
Harold wrote:
Linden Is God wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:I wonder....can Nonis trade Kesler's rights BEFORE he matches, thus allowing the new team to "match?"

Clarke is an asshole

Kesler is a selfish prick

What has happened is Kesler is now taking ONE million dollars that he has NOT earned , held the Canucks ransom and taken away Nonis' ability to add a player at the deadline. Nonis now has NO wiggle room unless he now trades ANOTHER player (since Kesler is thus untradeable). Good job asshat, nice to know Kesler is the consumate TEAM player. The next Trevor Linden my ass! This should make him a popular guy at the Xmas party.



That's pretty harsh to say. Sure he was asking more then he was worth, but it was Clarke who gave him the offer. If you were offered better money for the same job you're doing at a rival company I would bet you would take it.


Not a good comparison at all.
We aren't hockey players in the sports entertainment business. Most of us could leave our job, and our former bosses could find a comparable employee the very next day. If Kesler signs with Philadelphia, we don't get another Ryan Kesler. Our companies might not be operating precariously close to their maximum budget.

What Kesler has done is hamstrung the ability of his GM to make a trade at the deadline, or to shore up the team if we face injuries again this year. Trevor Linden is a team player and took LESS many than he could have got somewhere else, because he likes the city and he believes in the team concept. Ryan Kesler will be earning double his worth, and hurting the ability of his team to improve, because he obviously does not understand this team concept.


I should have omitted the Linden part, cause yeah I totally agree with that. But how can you blame Kesler for accepting the offer? When it is all said and done, this business is all about money. And especially at his age, why not get the money while you can?

I'm not denying this bites but I truly don't blame Kesler one bit.


Linden proved it wasn't all about money. He could have easily shopped himself around the league and received more than $600,000 plus bonuses. But the team and winning appears to be more important to him.

If the team had no cap or budgetary contraints, then I wouldn't blame Kesler one bit for getting as much as he can. But that isn't the situation. His team is under the constraints of a salary cap, and by signing a contract that effectively pays him double of what he is worth, he makes the team suffer.
What happens if the Canucks are having a great season, but at the trade deadline they are just one piece away from putting it all together and making a good playoff run. But oh wait, Nonis can't make a move because he has an extra $1M tied up in a 3rd liner.
When the players and the owners signed the new CBA they announced it as a partnership, in that the players would be receiving 54% of total league revenues. So there is only a finite amount of money for the players. And if one player greedily takes a contract that pays him double his worth, then he is not only taking money out of the total pie from a player who might deserve it more, he is knocking $1M off the total salary cap that the team is expected to operate under. Doesn't sound like much of a team player or a contributing member to a partnership to me.
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Postby Madcombinepilot » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:54 pm

(Kesler's qualifier next year will be $1.9M) and are looking forward to giving offer sheets to the likes of Carter and Richards. Pay back can be a bitch.


Actually, I think the canucks only have to offer 75% to qualify under the new agreement... ( I could be wrong- still not a new cap expert)

call it 1.4_ (something) ....


Still too much for Kesler, and Clarke will probably get away with it.... unless owners get involved (or GM's with strings)


Also, I wouldn't blame Kesler in this at all. If I were Kes, I would be jumping for joy at a million dollar raise for no reason. Now, his agent on the other hand.... who called in the favor that Clarkie owed him (those damn pictures!!)....... well, he gets a raise as well.,.. Him, I blame.
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Postby Mr. Bure #10 » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:11 pm

Just saw the news on TSN and need to comment even though this has been kicked to death.

Kesler and his agent seriously screwed the Canucks. Regardless of the fact that this is a business, they pressured Nonis and put him in a precarious position. Correct me if I am wrong, did I not hear that Nonis gave him a final offer (I guess $1.2 to 1.5 million) and was going to possibly hold a conference this week? Kesler was on his way to camp to skate with the team and seemed content to do so. I wouldn't be shocked if Clarke had already offered the $1.9 million well beforehand and they set up Nonis by dropping this bomb once they arrived.

I have no respect for this puke who thinks he is worth this much. Put together a 20goal - 50 point season and then we'll talk. The next Linden, yeah right. He's a greedy American with no intention of staying in Canada for his career. As soon as he is an UFA he will be gone anyways.

Here is what I would do:

Sign the prick out of spite. Force him to stay a year on the 4th line with minimal icetime. 5 goals should be a big bargaining tool as a UFA. He'll be gone anyways. Trade Cooke to free up some space and get a quality winger in return. Cooke is overpaid in my opinion for his role. That money could go to an offensive player. Wait for Carter or Richards to be a restricted free agent and then screw Clarke over with a fat contract offer. You win either way because you'll get a quality player or you can have the satisfaction knowing that Clarke has to foot the bill to save face. I would much rather have Richards anyway because that kid is a leader with heart.

It probably isn't the smart business plan for Nonis but it would sure feel good.

In reality, he should let him go if this affects his business plan. Cut your losses and take the pick. Make a trade with Cooke and the pick and get a young offensive talent in return. Schultz or Reid can make the jump this year. I personally think Reid will be very good in the new NHL. What about that kid we got from the Rangers for Fedorov? It sounds like there is some potential there as well. There would be some cap room to play with come the trade deadline. I think you need the space to address weaknesses that only reveal themselves during the 1st half of the season. We won't miss 10 goals and 13 assists.

With this, I will conclude with parting advice for all GMs in Canada. Stay away from American players. Follow the Sutter route by sticking with Canadians and Europeans.

I hate Bobby Clarke.
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Postby Meerschaum » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:32 pm

We can't trade him, but can he be demoted to the AHL to clear cap space?

I suppose he'd have to clear waivers . . . :mad:
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Postby gobi » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:40 pm

I agree Bure. People talk about greedy Russians. Well, here's a greedy American. I lost all respect for Kesler and Bobby Clarke for that matter. Let Philly eat the salary. I hope the injury bugs hit them hard. I am sure DN will look for ways to screw Clark next season. God save the NHL from idiotic GMs like Clark.
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Postby levelheaded » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:49 pm

gobi wrote:I agree Bure. People talk about greedy Russians. Well, here's a greedy American. I lost all respect for Kesler and Bobby Clarke for that matter. Let Philly eat the salary. I hope the injury bugs hit them hard. I am sure DN will look for ways to screw Clark next season. God save the NHL from idiotic GMs like Clark.


Agreed, I once considered Kesler one of my favourite players, but now I have no respect for him. He can rot in Philly for all I care. I've said it before, I don't like Prima Donnas, and Kesler is now firmly in that category. Don't be stupid and accept that offer Nonis, we've got better players to spend our money on. It's a strong draft next year, having more picks in it isn't a bad thing. Let him walk then poach Pitkanen from under Clarke's nose next year. GMs and players like Clarke and Kesler make me sick.
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Postby Sid Dithers » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:25 pm

Some thoughts here:
1. With Primeau's retirement, Clarke was scrambling to pickup a center. May as well pick up a young one with what he thinks is a lot of potential, even if it means you have to overpay him for a year. I can't say its a dumb move on his part.
2. Kessler took the money, and the extra million isn't chump change to a young kid like him. I can't really blame him any more than I could Baumgartner, who also couldn't get his name on that big offer fast enough.
3. Linden taking less (and hence proving he's a team guy) isn't such a big deal to me. He's nearing the end and has a lot of cash in the bank; the same can't be said of a 22-y-o Kessler at this point. The circumstances are far too different to compare.
4. Kessler, IMO, will never be a top 6 forward in this league. He handles the puck like its a grenade. He'll never get close to 30 goals.
5. DN and everybody else has been taught a huge lesson here; even in cap system, lock up what you perceive to be your best assets; don't invite the wolves to dinner.
6. Clarke has never cared about being popular around the league, he seems to revel in being a first-class SOB.
7. I wouldn't match the offer. If he does it will create some pent-up animosity in the room. Imagine a guy like Matt Cooke who's risked his well-being for years now, signing cheap contracts along the way, only to finally get a sizeable 1.5/year deal that he's getting ripped for now. And he has to grin and bear it as he watches Kessler blow by him on the money ladder even though he hasn't done much for the organization yet? Its kind of an ugly scenario. Let Clarke have Kessler, chalk it up to experience, and move on. Yes it sucks watching former #1 pick waltz off, but if Kessler was taking a tough stance now (when he hasn't proven much yet), what's he going to be like when he finally does start producing? He could be a bitch to deal with every time his contract is up and be a high-maintenance guy in that area. I'd rather have Canadian kid in the line-up anyway.
Last edited by Sid Dithers on Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Badfish » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:36 pm

The more I think about it the more I really don't like the idea of Kesler at 1.9. It's just bad all around, for the rest of the team, for our cap issues, and just shady tactics as well.

I've talked to a friend of mine who had been reading on another forum about the possibility of signing Kesler and then having him rot in the minors for the whoe season. Is this possible? Would that negate his salary towards our cap space? I'm not even sure if thats possible, but if so..... not a bad idea, although perhaps mean-spirited. but I mean.... the kid just threw our entire cap system out of whack. What's the rest of the team going to think of him? Last thing we need is another cancer. I know he'd have to clear waivers, but what would we get in return if claimed of waivers vs. the 2nd rounder from Philly? anything?
[Edit: On second thought, if he starts the season in minors, does that change anything? Does he still need to clear waivers?]

The funny thing is, I was reading todays paper tonight, and there's an article on Kesler in which it syas:
"Kesler, 22, won't parlay a 23-point season intoa whopping pay increase and his agent Kurt Overhardt expects a deal before main camp opens friday"

Now it's pretty clear why he was so sure a deal would get done! He must've known about this being in the works, or at least had talks with Clarke if the article is recent.

Shady deals :?
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Postby Canuck-One » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:51 pm

1. If the TSN story is true and Clark did threaten to sign Kessler to an offer sheet then DN has no choice but to match.

2. Putting an asset in the minors for spite is poor business judgement and will soon have DN on the breadline.

3. This is a rebuilding year and as such let it ride as we can repay in kind at a later date.

4. Clark has screwed himself with every other GM as has been mentioned a couple of times and this could lead to his job being terminated sooner rather than later when no one will deal with him.

5. Anyone advocating that Kessler be booed or will be hated in the dressing room is just talking with their emotions. Everyone in that room understands that you only have a few years to make your bucks so do it while you can. I would, you would, don't even bother denying it as it makes you look foolish. NO PLEASE DON'T PAY ME AN EXTRA MILLION.

6. With the current set up in Philly this was a smart pressure move by Clark that of course has back fired but he really does want Kessler to play with Umberger and Carter. Good chemistry and two good forward lines.

7. Can we go on without Kessler, absolutely, should we let Clark get away with this, absolutely not. You can't allow a GM to tell you who you will trade to him at his pleasure or else he will profer an offer sheet and take him anyway, anyone who believes we should obviously coughed up their lunch money.
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Postby gmisinthegarage » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:06 pm

Com'on guys,

I am not a big Kessler fan....... we can all agree he is NOT worth 1.9 Mil. Clarke made him the offer of 1.9. He had nothing to do with the offer from Philly. If another company called you up and said they were going to pay you twice as much you were worth. You would take it. Kessler was just trying to get as much as he could as would everyone else. This Philly thing came out of left field who would have seen this one coming, no one has done this in eight years. Kessler is just the lucky bastard reaping the benefits here. Kessler is just doing what his Agent recommends of course he will tell him to hold out for as much as he can get. The problem here is Clarke and the CBA Remember if you were in his shoes you would get as much money as you can.
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