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Having Bertuzzi fighting ,although I loved it when he did was stupid! Ruttu was not going to scrap anyone he knew he wasn't going to beat. Allen was a gamer and would step in and take beatings for his teamates any time! That was his problem he would take beatings. IMO having that happen is irresponsible coaching and management. You don't want these guys scrapping ! You want and have to have someone that will nuetralize the other teams heavywieght or you have things happen like happened against Minny last year when that monster boogard was running Canucks all game and nearly took Ohlunds head of with a charge.
If you guys are alright with this then I think your putting to much value on a fourth liner thats not a clear cut heaveywieght.

Remember the tough guy does not take away a skilled player likely to score goals he generally takes away a 4th liner and then only when need be. AlthoughBrashear was not a well thought of player he diid get in on the fore check very fast and really hit the opposition D making them move the puck generally before they wanted to, so he may not have scored a lot but he had very good straight ahead speed and played an inportant role in softing the other team up. And if some one really pissed him off could throw them, didn't happene often but every one new he was there

Well said Fred! Although I heard he was not well liked he was effective. For some reason Gino always had trouble with Mc Sorley while Brashear seem to handle him with ease. Unless Marty was behind him and hit him in the head with a stick.

I believe Brashear was a left-handed fighter and Odjick was right-handed. That could explain the difficulty with McSorely.

Also, Odjick probably faced McSorely about five years earlier in Marty's career, on average.

I think we need a tough guy, the role of a tough guy has changed but I think it is still a valuable role. Godard is a great team player and will be a valuable team player.

True Minny true.

With Bouck and Bieksa looking like they will make the team (on the assumption that their deals are one-way, which is my understanding), we've got a couple of guys on the bottom lines/pairings that can put in decent shifts and contribute but be willing and able to drop the gloves. Kesler is a big guy who's dropped them before with Iginla and held his won, so he adds to team toughness, as does Tommi Santala if he makes the team. I'd still like to see a depth d-man signed because we need one anyway, and we should pick a guy who can also fight.

MarkMM wrote:With Bouck and Bieksa looking like they will make the team (on the assumption that their deals are one-way, which is my understanding), we've got a couple of guys on the bottom lines/pairings that can put in decent shifts and contribute but be willing and able to drop the gloves. Kesler is a big guy who's dropped them before with Iginla and held his won, so he adds to team toughness, as does Tommi Santala if he makes the team. I'd still like to see a depth d-man signed because we need one anyway, and we should pick a guy who can also fight.

According to my sources, Bouck, Reid, Rypien, Goren, Bourdon and Bieksa are on 2-way contracs, while Santala and Tremblay are on one way contracts.

VHF wrote:

MarkMM wrote:With Bouck and Bieksa looking like they will make the team (on the assumption that their deals are one-way, which is my understanding), we've got a couple of guys on the bottom lines/pairings that can put in decent shifts and contribute but be willing and able to drop the gloves. Kesler is a big guy who's dropped them before with Iginla and held his won, so he adds to team toughness, as does Tommi Santala if he makes the team. I'd still like to see a depth d-man signed because we need one anyway, and we should pick a guy who can also fight.

According to my sources, Bouck, Reid, Rypien, Goren, Bourdon and Bieksa are on 2-way contracs, while Santala and Tremblay are on one way contracts.

Huh, I keep hearing conflicting things. I'd imagine Bieksa still has agood chance of making the team, but we might need to go with 7 d-men then, Bouck might have to fight it out with Reid and Burrows, I don't think Goren is more than a Moose-guy now, and isn't Bourdon too young to play in the AHL? Isn't the choice with him between the NHL and junior?

A lot of people are setting sites to track cap space, does anyone know of any sites that tracks which are two-way and which are one-way deals?

MM

try this site

http://hockeyanalysis.com/?page_id=333

Bouck and Bieksa are not heavyweights, they can hold their own against the middleweights but would be knocked around when the big boys come a knocking. For all the people that think the Canucks don't need a heavyweight, are you okay with the likes of Ohlund, Naslund, Salo, and Sedins being runned into the boards with no retaliation (and possible injuries incurring from the hits). I hope people here don't think that the biggest revenge would be to score a goal on the subsequent powerplay...I really hope not.

I know people will argue that enforcers are almost exclusively not used in the playoffs, but one thing you have to remember, you have to get INTO the playoffs first. You ask Naslund what he thought of Langdon joining the team way back when...each player on the bench plays that bit bigger and with that little more edge when they know they have someone that can handle the fisticuffs.

Canuck 2 , for some reason alot of people think that team toughness is enough in todays N.H.L. Man are they ever mistaken. Bieska < Bouck, Goren, Kesler arn't going to be able to do shit except get the crap beat out of themselves and lower team moral if the big boys come calling. If your willing to have that happen for the sake of 5or 6 goals and ten lost fights and the damage done to team moral by having a slightly more skilled "middlewieght on the fourth line then i think your not thinking this through and havn't learned anything from watching the last two seasons.

Team toughness is a good thing, don't get me wrong its very important but team toughness without a legit heavey wieght is alot like pissing in the wind.

ververgaert wrote:Team toughness is a good thing, don't get me wrong its very important but team toughness without a legit heavey wieght is alot like pissing in the wind.

Personally I don't agree but for arguments sake let's assume both that you are correct and that Nonis is going to address the situation. Who would you recommend that he goes after?

Thanks for that, Fred.

To be clear, I'm not saying that we are fine where we are, just that Bieksa and Bouck, plus a few dropped gloves once in a while from Mtichell, Kesler and maybe Santala puts the foundation of team toughness there, like was mentioned before, if all you have is an enforcer, you are not a tough team. We've got the toughness distributed through the team in players that can play, but ideally I'd like one more guy who can take on a heavyweight, but who is a guy who can hold his own with his gloves on as well...like the back-up goaltender position, no clear guy yet comes to mind, though I'm still looking.