Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

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Madcombinepilot
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Madcombinepilot » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:05 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:31 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:29 pm
Gifting anyone with a spot never seems to work out.

Not sure what all the hate bashing of 'veterans' is all about.. if the rookies can't win the job, they shouldn't be here.

Did anyone really think we were going into the season with 4 or 5 rookies this year?? And then watch the melt downs as the rookies only get 8-10 minutes a night??!?

By the end of the year, we will see 3-4 (or more) rookies get into the lineup. That's how you develop them.
Some people need to calm down and have some patience.
Mad what do you define as earning a spot? A rookie makes mistakes, it is how the team manages the mistakes that matters. I don’t give 2 flying shits about a 27 yo vet when a 19 year old (who makes mistakes) sits on the bench or down in the minors and does not learn. I’m not saying gift a job to a rookie but the meaning oh rookie = mistakes.
Earning a spot is when you outplay someone (rookie or veteran doesn't matter, it's the best player) for a specific role on the roster (top 6 forward, 3rd line energy guy, 4th line checker, etc). For the first time in a long time, we have competition for specific spots, opposed to a simple base team talent level (which has been pretty low the last couple years)
Depth is a beautiful thing.

But for this conversation, I'll go on a limb here and say we are talking Gagne vs Gaudette for making the team vs being sent down. (And if not, it still makes a good example). Also, I try and keep an open mind as all we see is the preseason games. We don't see practice, intensity, drills, or anything in the locker room.

IMO, this is not a conversation to even be having. people need to think it through. Gagner was kept over summer as the team wasn't sure if Petersson could cut it as a second line center right off the bat, or if he would need a couple months to adjust. Gag's was insurance. Now that everyone knows Elias is ready, Gag's should be getting moved.

Gaudette needed to make the team as a second line center (a stretch for first year out of college) or a third line checking/energy center. He did not outplay Petersson for the 2nd Line spot (but if Petersson wasn't ready, an argument could be made he outplayed Gagner for the 2nd line spot)

Gaudette is now looking to make the team as a third line checking/energy center. Did Gaudette outplay Sutter? No. It might not be the answer some want to hear, but there it is. So at this point, Gaudette goes down to play big minutes, adjust from college hockey to AHL (I don't care what's Mick hints/rants/says about this, the AHL is the best development league in the world) and get ready to make the team next year, or be first call up when injuries happen. Gaudette will better serve the team (or not) playing 15-17 minutes in the AHL as a center over playing every other night for 8-10 min in the NHL. He will get a shot for the NHL still. Gaudette was never competing for a 3rd or 4th line winger spot, so I'm not even mentioning him in the conversation with Schaller or Rousell (of which the team is still not sure how Rousell fits yet)

Now, on a related tangent, I also do not see the burning need for a rookie to play 82 games in their first season. I see no problem starting guys in the AHL and making some trades in October and November to get assets back for guys like Gagner and/or Grandlund. This is good asset management. We make those trades if guys like Gaudette and Motte keep playing in Utica like they are in camp. Then, If they get the call up and play 60 games in a rookie season, I am good with that. We are already one of the youngest teams in the league so I am ok having some older guys like Beagle here to show rookies what it takes to win and compete. No need to rush anyone at this point.

That make sense to explain my thought process?


Edit:
Now, if we don't move Gagner (or reveal a role for him), then I will be driving the 'trade Gagner' train as hard as I was on the 'free bus tix for Gaunce'

In fact, I just realized I AM driving the 'trade Gagner' train!!

WHOOP WHOOP!! ALL ABOARD!!! :D
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:02 am

micky107 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:39 am
Your a good guy and a good poster Todd but I seriously disagree with almost everyone's depiction of what the minor league, (AHL), really is.
What I call it is a necessary evil. Make no mistake about it, the speed is slower the game in general is slower, but line changes still happen the same way so this "big minute" crap that is spewed is just that.

I'll go so far as saying that "maybe" a "little" that two or three weeks for Juolevi down there might help him heal a little longer and become more pain free. When I look at our defense, I think he fits in, make room!
Not Gaudette though. Room should have been made and hopefully will be tute sweet. If not, It's a "Trav"esty.
Also doesn't bode well or look good to other US college players that could potentially sign, (or not sign), NHL contracts.
On a personal note: It makes me sick that I have to watch someone like Gagne over someone like Gaudette.
Does that equate into impatience ? I don't think so.
For the record, I am aware that JB announced the cuts.
I respectfully disagree, but I think I can see what u r saying. I don't think we'll have to worry though, if either of those 2 play well down there, they'll be back here sooner than later. We'll get our fair share of injuries and we'll need bodies up here to play. Olaf definitely needs seasoning time b4 he plays here. Nothing wrong with him taking his time to heal up, getting coaching from our pro staff and focus on getting stronger. Think back to when Troy Soldier made the team. He was originally sent down to start the season, but he was called up early. He played well to force mgmt to keep him here and has never looked back.

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by micky107 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:42 am

Image

This to me, means, well, absolutely nothing. Nothing moving forward that is.
There are players who have made the opening day roster that shouldn't have.
This has been, one of, the poorest run camps I have ever seen here.
These stats are too misleading as they do not indicate who played with who (ya, that don't sound good).
So if there are injuries, Oli and Adam will for surely be called up. Then what? Till the others get healthy? Then cya again?
Yes, I remember Troy getting a chance, Willie keeping him up, but now we are way overboard on the heavy, older guy, contracts.
Now it's worse then when so many were saying the Sedins being here were keeping younger players out of the line-up.
Yes, I know there isn't as many protection clauses but when I see 2 or 3 or 4 large contracts buried in the minors, I'll believe,
"ROOM WILL BE MADE".
You know what" This whole upcoming season seemed to take a direct turn to the Annisis Island Recycling Depot the day Hughes said,
I'm goin back to play school.

We have too much, what's the word? Oh ya, stuff.
"evolution"

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by CrzyCanuck » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:50 am

micky107 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:42 am

This to me, means, well, absolutely nothing. Nothing moving forward that is.
There are players who have made the opening day roster that shouldn't have.
This has been, one of, the poorest run camps I have ever seen here.
These stats are too misleading as they do not indicate who played with who (ya, that don't sound good).
So if there are injuries, Oli and Adam will for surely be called up. Then what? Till the others get healthy? Then cya again?
Yes, I remember Troy getting a chance, Willie keeping him up, but now we are way overboard on the heavy, older guy, contracts.
Now it's worse then when so many were saying the Sedins being here were keeping younger players out of the line-up.
Yes, I know there isn't as many protection clauses but when I see 2 or 3 or 4 large contracts buried in the minors, I'll believe,
"ROOM WILL BE MADE".
You know what" This whole upcoming season seemed to take a direct turn to the Annisis Island Recycling Depot the day Hughes said,
I'm goin back to play school.

We have too much, what's the word? Oh ya, stuff.

You are absolutely overreacting.

Want to know the harsh reality? Yes, we all want those garbage contracts to be buried in the minor or veterans to be waived, but GUESS WHAT? none of the rookies were even close to being better than the players with trashy contracts.

There will be call-ups to fill injuries and to take over the spots.

The prospects were simply not ready, period.

Now if you can't take that, i think NHL2K19 is a good place for you to ice your all-star all rookie team.
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by micky107 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:05 am

What? You telling me I'm movin too fast?

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"evolution"

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Hockey Widow » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:53 am

You know better micky. You don’t gift roster spots to the young kids. Veterans will always be given the benefit of the doubt. A young kid must out shine a vet to take his job. Pettersson breaks camp being the leading scorer. That’s performing. He played well without the puck. That’s performing.

Motte has out performed several others, Gaunce is gone.

You’re going on because players you like were cut. But if Pettersson survives the final cut it will make every Benning year with at least one rookie on the team.

You’d better believe Benning is working the phones trying to see if he can deal a player or two for, well anything. Not a lot of movement until rosters are set and the season starts. So he may very well try to protect assets for the first month or so. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by ESQ » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am

With Gagner getting waived, Benning has once again done exactly what he said he'd do. Made everybody earn their spot, and made room for a young player.

Hopefully next year we can wait until the final cuts before seeing fan meltdowns.

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Madcombinepilot » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am
With Gagner getting waived, Benning has once again done exactly what he said he'd do. Made everybody earn their spot, and made room for a young player.

Hopefully next year we can wait until the final cuts before seeing fan meltdowns.
yup.

I figured JB would hang onto Gagne for a few weeks and try and sell him for a later pick (4th or 5th or whatever) just to get a couple extra picks..

he probably tried, but Blobbie was correct in Gagnes value in the trade market.
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by micky107 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:34 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:53 am
You know better micky. You don’t gift roster spots to the young kids. Veterans will always be given the benefit of the doubt. A young kid must out shine a vet to take his job. Pettersson breaks camp being the leading scorer. That’s performing. He played well without the puck. That’s performing.

Motte has out performed several others, Gaunce is gone.

You’re going on because players you like were cut. But if Pettersson survives the final cut it will make every Benning year with at least one rookie on the team.

You’d better believe Benning is working the phones trying to see if he can deal a player or two for, well anything. Not a lot of movement until rosters are set and the season starts. So he may very well try to protect assets for the first month or so. Nothing wrong with that.
I know Wids. The truth is, I like Benning and think his good qualities outweigh his not so good ones, public speaking under pressure being one of them,
ha ha. And you are right, the two I've been going on about, I did want them to be in Van.
I am concerned about the length of contract needed to sign established, (and I use that word with a grin), players, to agree to play here.
That's almost as bad as a protection clause. Makes them extra difficult to move as well, if that's what is desired.
Mind you, in the case of Pouliott, if this guy survives the final cut and we continue to depend heavily on Biega, I can'y help thinking
Growing Juolevi into a role here could not possibly hurt him or the team.
Gaudette lost to the numbers situation you speak of.
Still don't think Green really put Guadette in a good position to succeed in the time he gave him.
There was one game where he was very effective both ends of the ice and hitting,(cleanly), everything that moved.

The idea of over stocking the shelves because of "Canuck projected injury syndrome", could bite back a bit.
In regards to the "Seattle Ole Keys" expansion draft, I haven't even given that much thought yet.

By the way. I've always adamantly opined that a true rebuild requires a truly experienced coach.
"evolution"

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Lancer » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:17 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am
With Gagner getting waived, Benning has once again done exactly what he said he'd do. Made everybody earn their spot, and made room for a young player.

Hopefully next year we can wait until the final cuts before seeing fan meltdowns.
JB waiving Gagner is encouraging IMO. Shows Bennig isn't afraid to park FAs he signed in the minors if they aren't performing - or if one of the kids is showing better than a vet. Hopefully this is a shot across the bow at the likes of Granlund, Sutter or MDZ.

One goal all of 2018, you'd think Gagner would have stormed out of the gate this camp. Evidently not.
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by micky107 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:24 am

Lancer wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:17 am
ESQ wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:15 am
With Gagner getting waived, Benning has once again done exactly what he said he'd do. Made everybody earn their spot, and made room for a young player.

Hopefully next year we can wait until the final cuts before seeing fan meltdowns.
JB waiving Gagner is encouraging IMO. Shows Bennig isn't afraid to park FAs he signed in the minors if they aren't performing - or if one of the kids is showing better than a vet. Hopefully this is a shot across the bow at the likes of Granlund, Sutter or MDZ.

One goal all of 2018, you'd think Gagner would have stormed out of the gate this camp. Evidently not.
Zack did it. Has never been right.
"evolution"

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by micky107 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:24 pm

"evolution"

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Uncle dans leg » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:02 pm

Copy and paste Mick. I do t play twittle or whatever so that just comes up with a log in. The only logging in i do is in the shed
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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by 5thhorseman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:09 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:02 pm
Copy and paste Mick. I do t play twittle or whatever so that just comes up with a log in. The only logging in i do is in the shed
You have a toilet in there?

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Re: Canucks camp & preseason 2018/2019

Post by Uncle dans leg » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:19 pm

Theres a piss jug and a bucket.
nobody forks...with the jesus

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