2019 UFA

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theman
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by theman »

very good point actually. The more I think about it, the more I think we just throw the chequebook at Karlsson and say sign and you write how much. Good point, how often do we have a chance to sign a Norris Trophy winner.

If that signs, sign Myers for a decent amount.
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Madcombinepilot
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Madcombinepilot »

ESQ wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:05 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:34 pm
Anyways yes I'd throw all the cash at EK July 1st first and foremost.


FFS Skyo.. Get off the sniffing glue already. We are NOT getting EK. He is not coming here.

We don't want him at the price tag he will command. It will be an overpayment (to say the least) to get him here.

He is an albatross contract WAITING to happen.

He might have a good year or even 2, but the last 6 will look worse than Erickssons, he will always be injured playing here - worse than Tanev - and with the dollars being paid him, it will be unmoveable.
Are you serious?

There are 6 Norris-winning defensemen in the league. If you get one for just cap space, who can put up more points than our best forwards, you do it.

There hasn't been a single Norris winner who's fallen off a cliff at 30, they are always elite into their late-30s.
Yeah, well they ain't played for Vancouver yet.

It's real simple.
Either the travel will run them down until they are fatigued, get sloppy and hammered and concussed, or the refs will decide full contact desnotting is ok, of they will blow their achillies tendon while fixing a toaster.
EVERYONE who is a defenceman gets hurt when they sign here.
As much as I appreciate the sentiment for getting an all star stud, Norris guy, we can not blow our load on 1 Player.
HE WILL GET HURT.
Then because of our MASSIVE LACK of depth on defence, we are a fucking lotto team again because all the eggs were in one basket. So we spend 10 million (or whatever) on EK. Then he gets a bone bruise of some other 10 game injury, at the same time as Edler and Tanev (because they always get hurt at the same time) and here we are a year later asking our number 5-6 guys (Hutton and Stetcher) to be our 1-2 guys.. AGAIN. While playing a 3-4 rookies and sophomores to fill in the holes.

HEEELLLOOOO DESTINATION = FUCKED!!!!!



Seriously, we need depth. If a Norris guy comes around in a couple years when we either have the assets to trade,(off season or deadline) or the cap space to use (because of the development of youth has kept the cap under control) then w make that move.

But until we get the assets built back up and the depth drafted, it's a pipe dream.

Patience.
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Mickey107
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Mickey107 »

I agree. Paying the sky to Erik Karlsson is foolish. He will get hurt plenty in Van.
I know our owners like flash and dance but we have to step back and be smart about
how to put together a blue-line for the now and the 5 years from now.
Last year calgary got Hanafin, though they had the trade chip, but we should be thinking
a wee bit younger then EK.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by SKYO »

Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Mickey107 »

SKYO wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:32 am Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
Ya Ok, Skyo, point taken. He'll be 29 by the time we can put in a offer to him, IF he becomes a free agent.
I cannot Bitch about his attendance record, it's near impeccable so he knows how to take care of himself. But he hasn't felt the wrath
of a Canuck schedule. I suppose SJ is a tad worse than the Sens. But Van is as bad as it gets.
And I suppose there may be something to the Swedish connection to Vancouver.
Will he still be great at 35?, 36?
This is not a joke. If we were to go for it. IMO, it could take 14/ ok, maybe 13.8.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by 2Fingers »

SKYO wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:32 am Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
Normally I do not agree with Skyo's ideas but I am all over this one, but only if they sign at least 1 more D man that is considered top 4. This will automatically make the team better and the skill forwards will see better outlet passes, better decision making from their D. I see the Nucks as a playoff team next year if they do this.

The question is if they can afford this?

With over $10M stuck on the 4th line, how can they do this?

Lastly signing Karlsson will attract better 2nd/3rd line forward to join the team, IMO. Again with JB spending over paying on un effective players it is now impacting them. Who said it was ok for him to over spend now because it would not impact the decisions that the team makes?

Strange your thoughts?
theman
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by theman »

SKYO wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:32 am Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
That's how I am coming around too. What i am thinking is: Blow the wad on Karlsson, re-sign Edler to a decent UFA deal, trade Tanev.
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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

theman wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:34 am
SKYO wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:32 am Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
That's how I am coming around too. What i am thinking is: Blow the wad on Karlsson, re-sign Edler to a decent UFA deal, trade Tanev.
I'm hesitant to spend that kind of money on Karlsson as well. At the end of the day, it's not my money and if the Aquas wants to blow their wad on Karlsson and we get a better product on the ice, then why not? I think the key is really Karlsson's health situation. He hasn't seemed like the same player ever since he had the foot/leg injury. A big aspect to his game is his skating/mobility and if can't move like he did, it's going to hurt his production. The last thing we need is another Tanev on the roster, especially at those kind of dollars. Hopefully JB & Co. do their research/homework b4 they even consider giving the Karlsson camp an offer sheet.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by UWSaint »

(I can't believe I am saying this, but) I think there is sense to Skyo's argument to blow the wad on an elite #1 in the abstract. The question is whether Karlsson is and will be that guy for the majority of a 7 year contract. I don't know because I honestly haven't watched him this year and don't know the extent of the injury he suffered last year and how it will impact the next 7 years. But he was elite in Ottawa.

A true #1 defensemen is not simply one player because being in the lineup means worse players are not on the ice. A true #1 plays 25-28 minutes a night and in all situations. What that means is that nearly half the game there is an elite player on the ice. And as importantly, it means that a team's last pairing can have sheltered and protected minutes. This is an overlooked benefit of the workhorse #1. There is great of value to keeping the Puliots and Biegas on the ice for 14 minutes instead of 18 minutes. Better to have a #7 caliber playing 14 minutes than a #5/6 calibers playing 18. (This year, the Canucks have frequently had #7 caliber guys playing 18 minutes....). Put differently, a workhorse #1 provides depth by himself when not injured.

Look at the Canucks with Edler and without Edler. When he's in the lineup, Alex Edler is a workhorse (24 minutes a night), and he is the Canucks #1 PP guy and is a top PKer. Now, his quality is not elite. Good -- some games very good -- but not close to elite. With Edler in the lineup, the team is 24-17-5. Without him, they are 7-15-5. I am not saying that difference in record is all due to Edler; there are team and goalie hot spells and cold spells, etc. But the trickle down effect of disbursing 24 minutes to the other defensemen is enormous. And that's where the gap in talent is between Edler and, say, Hutton, and not Karlsson and Hutton.

I can only shake my head when people say "Edler is hurt too much, we have to move on" or "Tanev is hurt too much, we have to move on" without having a clue as to moving on to what. The downside of Edler and Tanev being hurt is that the defense is a total shambles when both are out -- heck, its mostly in shambles when just Edler is out. If the team defense is atrocious without these guys when they are injured, it will be atrocious without these guys when they are not Canucks.... When they are in, the Canucks are still mediocre from a defensive personnel perspective, and mediocre is generous. So the goal has to be to replace and improve on them. That's hard because the list of clearly better defenseman free agents is, in my view, exactly 1. But that one player, Erik Karlsson, is a LOT better than Tanev and Edler.

To improve, this team needs to sign Karlsson or (unrealistically) hope Hughes jumps in as better than Tanev (if he is dealt) or Edler (if he walks). I'm not buying it; I think if QH is as good as Sergechev was last year, Canucks fans should feel he is on a good pace.

Or they can keep Tanev and Edler and add another player of equal (Myers) on ice value.* If QH can be a top 4 out of the gate (I am skeptical, but...) a lineup of:

Edler-Tanev
Hughes-Myers
Hutton-Stetcher
Biega

would give the team at least a league average and possibly better defense. If the Canucks are serious about making the playoffs next year, (1) retaining Edler and signing Myers or (2) signing Karlsson is the way to go.

Things would be different if there was more ripe in the system. But only Woo and Juolevi look like they might be top 4 defensemen someday. And both still have to first establish they are top 4 AHL defensemen.... Maybe you can add Tryamkin into that mix, but I am assuming he will not come back and he's not a sure thing if he does. None of these guys should be part of the 2019-20 plan. 2020-21, maybe....









* Gardiner is probably close to Tanev or Edler in terms of on ice value. But with QH coming into the lineup, the team doesn't need another high-risk, high-reward profile. Stralman's value is a little less. Chara would provide similar on-ice value next season as Edler without the PP QB, but I am presuming (1) he is staying in Boston and (2) there would be no longer term option there.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by ESQ »

Canucks have been middle-of-the-pack in what I consider defensive team stats categories - pk%, GA/gp, SA/gp.

They are bottom-5 in offensive team stats - pp%, SF/gp, GF/gp.

I'm a little surprised by the defensive performance - some is thanks to Markstrom, but I was very surprised to see they're 16th in the league for shots-against.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by 2Fingers »

UW - I cannot speak for others but what good is having how many millions always sitting in trainers room? Would love to Tanev if he could play 75+ games but it seems for this team he cannot do that. So as per your point it then means that players like Pouliot plays too much.

Who do you replace them with?

Stay at home D FA.

Let the offence come from Karlsson and Huges.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Strangelove »

Mëds wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:49 am Yeah I think that's pretty much the point that UW made there about the "x-factor" free agents.

The difference between a draft pick and a free agent is that the free agent steps in and can play at the NHL level now.

The Canucks are at the point in the rebuild where meaningful games in March are critical. The new core is forming, many of the pieces are settling in, but unless we want to be Edmonton 2.0 we need to actually go into that free agent pool and put some talented veteran players in the mix with Pettersson, Boeser, and Horvat.

We've "homegrown" a goaltender in Markstrom who looks like he's finally the real deal, and because he hit his stride here and was given the opportunity to grow through failures, even if his current play remains status quo for him next year we are likely to see him give Vancouver a legit discount next spring (Swedes seem to be pretty loyal.....I'll give them that Per :P ).

We do NOT have the pieces on the roster or in the system to put a reliable NHL blueline on the ice next year.

Edler and Hutton are the only legit top-4 guys we have that we should go forward with, and both need new contracts this summer. Hutton hasn't proven anything though, he's had two good NHL seasons, both in contract years.

Tanev should be traded. His durability is too much of a question mark, and he is $4.5M of cap space that would get us a worthwhile return that comes "cap free".

Stecher is not a top-4 guy. If he can be given a LS partner who can play 15+ min and bring some own-zone smarts and muscle without a propensity for turnovers and useless off-the-glass "transition passes" then he's serviceable on the 3rd pairing and can step up when needed, but he's not a guy that I want as a regular in the top-4, and he's not a guy that you put a rookie defenseman with. Given the right trade I would still move on.

Hughes and Juolevi may not even be ready for the big time. We can't bank on a couple of kids who have yet to suit up for a regular season game in the NHL.

Our trade chips that we should be willing to part with.....

Tanev, Sutter, Eriksson, Spooner, and Baertschi.

We aren't going to address the right-side D spot in a trade involving Tanev. That's just not a hockey trade, RS for RS? Only happens when the team wanting to upgrade finds a team that has extra and pays out a good prospect or pick. Not an option here.

The other 4 names aren't going to get us a top-4 RS blueliner unless they too are part of a package where we send out picks and/or prospects.....which would be stupid at this point.

So.....

Edler - _______
Hutton - _______
______ - Stecher


We have 3 spots that badly need to be filled with players who can perform at a level that actually lets our young leaders win games.

IF we can get out from under $10M of contracts, then target Karlsson AND Myers. Bring in both. The PP and PK are instantly improved. Our 5-on-5 game takes a massive step forward because suddenly we can defend, transition, and attack, with 2/3 of our pairings, maybe all of them depending who lands with Stecher in this scenario.

Where do you suggest we go to get those badly needed spots, the draft? Utica?

Or is the master plan to toil in perpetuity and grow up a core after core of perennial losers like the Oilers have for the better part of two decades?
Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Stecher
Hughes - Tryamkin


With LS Juolevi and RS Woo likely ready within one to two years.

Not sure why you trade Tanev other than to justify your Karlsson AND Myers fantasy (zero chance btw).

Also both will require NMCs... meaning you'd have to protect them in the expansion draft.

In the expansion draft there's a good chance we'll want to protect Juolevi + Tryamkin + one other.

Also you are the only fan in Canuckdom who isn't penciling Hughes into the top 6 next year.
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Strangelove »

Reefer2 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:20 pm
Mëds wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:49 am
So.....

Edler - _______
Hutton - _______
______ - Stecher

We have 3 spots that badly need to be filled with players who can perform at a level that actually lets our young leaders win games.

IF we can get out from under $10M of contracts, then target Karlsson AND Myers. Bring in both. The PP and PK are instantly improved. Our 5-on-5 game takes a massive step forward because suddenly we can defend, transition, and attack, with 2/3 of our pairings, maybe all of them depending who lands with Stecher in this scenario.

Where do you suggest we go to get those badly needed spots, the draft? Utica?

Or is the master plan to toil in perpetuity and grow up a core after core of perennial losers like the Oilers have for the better part of two decades?
Well said.

It is also why some of us have been harping on the overpayment we have been giving some players because it does hamper this team for next season and the one after IF we wanted to land a couple top free agents.
Except the cap wouldn't "hamper this team for next season and the one after". :roll:

(IF we did everything Mëds is proposing in his post)

And let's be honest here... "some of us" = YOU Image
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Strangelove »

Reefer2 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:21 am
SKYO wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:32 am Boston won the Cup thanks to overspending on Chara, the Ducks won their Cup in part by spending $$$ on Niedermayer.

Don't be afraid to spend big bucks on Norris caliber dmen, it's quite fucking simple really.
Normally I do not agree with Skyo's ideas but I am all over this one, but only if they sign at least 1 more D man that is considered top 4. This will automatically make the team better and the skill forwards will see better outlet passes, better decision making from their D. I see the Nucks as a playoff team next year if they do this.

The question is if they can afford this?

With over $10M stuck on the 4th line, how can they do this?

Lastly signing Karlsson will attract better 2nd/3rd line forward to join the team, IMO. Again with JB spending over paying on un effective players it is now impacting them. Who said it was ok for him to over spend now because it would not impact the decisions that the team makes?


Strange your thoughts?
Thanks for asking Mr Reefer.

The short answer is that the team has a massive amount of cap room for the next two seasons.

(more than enough to do as you are fantasizing)

If you require further explanation, please re-read my other posts to you on this matter.

Thank you and have a pleasant evening.

P.S. there is "over $10M stuck on the 4th line" only in that wild imagination of yours. 8-)
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Re: 2019 UFA

Post by Strangelove »

SKYO wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:29 pm
micky107 wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:24 pm
SKYO wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:29 pm
Eberle easily would be the teams 4th best scoring forward by a landslide I bet, a 1 yr prove it deal would be superb for JE.

Eberle will rebound on a new team and Horvat can stop playing with scrubs for line mates for once.
My question on this Skyo is why would he go for a one year deal in Vancouver?

He's been making 6 mill per year.

Some GM will go and offer him 3.5 or even 4 for two or three years.
But maybe I'd feel different if Eriksson was eliminated from the roster.
Because it'd be a hard sell by his agent to any team to give him term with $6M+ AAV after this down season.

A good read on that:
https://eyesonisles.com/2019/03/17/new- ... nues-drop/

"The moral of the story is that Eberle’s poor season will likely cost him millions of dollars this July. It just goes to show how important a contract season could be for a player."

Eberle could look for a good fit with a nice roster spot where he could shine to earn his big pay day again.
Playing alongside Horvat 5vs5 & some powerplay time with Petey+Boeser would give him a good chance at regaining his form again.
Eberle is one of the 3 snowmen of Edmonton.

Also I would see no reason for him performing better with Canucks than he did with Islanders.
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