Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:17 pm

ESQ wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm
Benning acquired NHL-roster players, with very little upside, who aren't waiver-exempt.

small, sort-of skilled forwards that aren't waiver-exempt
Why do people keep saying Motte isn't waiver exempt? :look:

ESQ wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm
It takes 2-3 years for a 3rd or 4th rounder picked out of NCAA to even make the AHL roster, so I see late-rounders as improving the pipeline of prospects a few years into the future, and also giving a chance of the pick turning out great - which will not happen with Leipsic and Motte.
It's not an impossibility that one of Leipsic or Motte "turn out great"...
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:24 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick.
Yep.... but the people here will not agree with this. Other than a few of us you are beating your head against a wall.

It’s the Branch Davidian/planet of the apes basically.

Lord Elmer/Koresh has never made a mistake. I feel like Taylor trying to communicate with Doctor Zeus and Cornelius and a horde of apes
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:21 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:11 pm
Yet another reason why it shouldn't be tallied yet, thank you...
With the Canucks set to host the 2019 NHL entry draft, do you think the Canucks finally prioritize draft picks?

Do you think the NHL is expecting the Canucks to hold a high pick?

Sticking with the Canucks (debatable) trade history, are you conflicted about Jared McCann's game winning (OT) goal against the Leaves?

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:22 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:17 pm
It's not an impossibility that one of Leipsic or Motte "turn out great"...
It's not impossible that Stetcher wins a Norris either.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:25 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:21 pm
Sticking with the Canucks (debatable) trade history, are you conflicted about Jared McCann's game winning (OT) goal against the Leaves?
Trading for Gudbranson was the right move in my opinion... I don't really care what McCann does.

But now that YOU mention it, he hasn't done much...
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:27 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:22 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:17 pm
It's not an impossibility that one of Leipsic or Motte "turn out great"...
It's not impossible that Stetcher wins a Norris either.
Your example would definitely have the higher odds against...
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:03 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:25 pm
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:21 pm
Sticking with the Canucks (debatable) trade history, are you conflicted about Jared McCann's game winning (OT) goal against the Leaves?
Trading for Gudbranson was the right move in my opinion... I don't really care what McCann does.

But now that YOU mention it, he hasn't done much...
You think including the 33rd overall pick was a good move ?

So you think moving a cost controlled top nine 20 year old forward along with a high pick in a stellar draft for a 26 year old 5/6 d man is the right move ?

Just curious is all.

I’m fine with McCann for Real Dud 1 for 1 for the record. Coughing up a high pick in a great draft is dumb as dirt
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:15 pm

I'm glad Vanek came to play here. He was one of the more exciting players to watch with his slap shots off the rush, sweet passes and the ability to cause chaos in front of the net. He seemed to be a great guy in the dressing room and a great mentor to the kids as well. He was a great bargain player for $2M and prob one of my favourite players this season. Too bad we couldn't make the playoffs, if healthy, I think our guys can give most teams a good run for their money. I liked the idea of having 2 potential game breakers in the lineup with Vanek and Brockstar.

It would have been nice to get a pick for Vanek, but guess it wasn't there. It's weird sometimes, last year we got some decent returns for Hansen and Burr. I think Vanek is way better than those 2, but the return seems pretty crappy in comparison. Oh well, it is what it is.

If he comes back in the offseason, great! If not, that's fine too. His age is getting up there and he does seem to go thru some slumps cause of it.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:33 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:03 pm
You think including the 33rd overall pick was a good move ?

So you think moving a cost controlled top nine 20 year old forward along with a high pick in a stellar draft for a 26 year old 5/6 d man is the right move
Yup and yup. (except he's more than a "5/6 d man")

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:03 pm
I’m fine with McCann for Real Dud 1 for 1 for the record. Coughing up a high pick in a great draft is dumb as dirt
Well The Guds was a 3rd overall, so as yo mama always said "You never know what you're gonna get".

The Guds hasn't panned out as expected see, so yeah... "you never know".

But we have a pretty gud idea now what we have in The Guds

... a huge mean mamafucka who can handle top 4 minutes in the right situation.

Shouldn't have gone 3rd overall... but how much more ambiguous is a 24th or 33rd pick?

(a 24th - McCann - who had been weighed, measured and found wanting)
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Diehard1 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:55 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:17 pm
ESQ wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm
Benning acquired NHL-roster players, with very little upside, who aren't waiver-exempt.

small, sort-of skilled forwards that aren't waiver-exempt
Why do people keep saying Motte isn't waiver exempt? :look:

ESQ wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm
It takes 2-3 years for a 3rd or 4th rounder picked out of NCAA to even make the AHL roster, so I see late-rounders as improving the pipeline of prospects a few years into the future, and also giving a chance of the pick turning out great - which will not happen with Leipsic and Motte.
It's not an impossibility that one of Leipsic or Motte "turn out great"...
Motte won’t be waiver exempt in another 16 games. Assuming he’s a halfway decent player that shouldn’t take long.

I agree they could turn out decently or even great, Leipsic more than Motte, but the odds are definitely not in their favour.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:53 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:55 pm
Motte won’t be waiver exempt in another 16 games. Assuming he’s a halfway decent player that shouldn’t take long.
Well if he's a "halfway decent player"... why would we worry about waivers?

It "won't take long"... if he absolutely tears it up!

At his present ratio of NHL games played he won't hit 16 until around Christmas.

And if Canucks want to stretch that out, they can decrease that NHL ratio, play him in the A at a higher ratio.

As my pal Blobby Mac says, there will be a lot of competition for spots moving forward..
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Diehard1 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:14 am

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:04 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?

This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.

Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick. It's hard to make that many bad trades and signings in the 4 years Benning has been here.

I give him credit for a few deals - Leipsic is a solid pickup, Pouliot I'm fine with, loved the Burrows deal. Granlund is meh given how terrible he's been this year with a ton of ice time, Baertschi is too given I'd rather have the player the Flames drafted with our 2nd than Baertschi, Dorsett for a 3rd is ok too but didn't work out for other reasons. The drafting of Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Demko, etc look very good and we already knew that was his strength.

The plan has been odd to say the least - Benning deserves any and all criticism he's received to date. I'm hopeful that this is going to change soon, but given what we've seen in the last 4 years I'm not all that convinced.

You are UN. FUCKING. REAL.

I keep responding to your complaints... and you keep completely ignoring those responses.

Here's a link... and please check out the link within the link:

http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 48#p299448

How many times do I have to point out it wasn't a 2nd + Bonino for Sutter

... it was a 9-spot-pick-upgrade (55th to 64th) + Bonino for Sutter.

(and they still got the player they wanted in Lockwood)

(and most people here think Sutts is better for this team than Bones, yes I know about the 2 Cups)

You keep saying "11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in"... but that's deceptive.

You're not counting the 2nd from Columbus (Torts) and you're including the 2018 draft (we don't know yet).

The 2nd from Columbus was not earned by GMJB, but it took some pressure off in the Acquire Picks Dept.

The rest of your concerns are addressed in the links provided...
Relax man, I have a full time job, young family and not all the time in the world to be on message boards. I apologize if I haven’t responded quickly enough or thoroughly enough for you, hard to keep up sometimes given numerous posts that don’t add much and mean good discussion gets lost quickly.

You are right, it wasn’t a 2nd straight up in the Sutter deal, never said it was. You also forget to mention that the amazing Clendening was in the deal, after playing a whopping 17 games for the Nucks, traded for a Forsling who had a great WJC. Forsling has also played 79 NHL games to date and is only 21 years old so has a long career ahead of him. Not a great move.

I’m not going to give Benning credit for a pick he had nothing to do with - Torts was a Gillis/Aquilini here and the pick was compensation for him, how does a Benning deserve any credit at all for that? To say it took some pressure off is disingenuous and makes little sense given they’ve shown no disposition to try and gain picks to date.

I like Virtanen’s game right now, but when Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, Perlini and Fiala all go right after you (Haydn Fleury was right after and a terrible pickeven at the time) you are behind the 8 ball. Juolevi went before Tkachuk, Keller and Sergachev, who all look like future stars. Still time here but there will have to be some major improvement

As for Hamhuis and Vrbata, it’s been said by those who should be in the know that a 3rd was on the table for Hamhuis. Link:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... uddy-thing

Vrbata was a Benning signing so if you are saying Benning’s hands were tied, Benning tied them himself. Can’t have it both ways.

Benning and Linden keep saying they want to get younger, more competitive, don’t want a losing culture, and love draft picks. Let’s go with indisputable facts:

- Linden Vey for a 2nd is getting older
- Dorsett for a 3rd is older
- Garrison, Costello and 7th for 2nd - getting younger. Whoops, traded it for Vey so check that. Will give it to you.
- Mallet and 3rd for Pedan, older
- Forsling for Clendening, older
- Baertschi for 2nd, older - and Andersson is worth Baertschi easily, have you seen him play? I assume not. For sure an NHL player
- Lack for picks, younger
- McNally for 7th, younger
- Bieksa for 2nd, younger then traded in the Sutter deal
- Kassian plus 5th for Prust, older
- Bonino, Clendening, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd - saw off given Clendening is awful, and Sutter and Bonino are the same age
- Granlund for Shink, older, even if Granlund is a better player
- Larsen for 5th, older
- Guddy, 5th for McCann, 2nd, 4th - older
- Burr for a Dahlen, younger (great trade)
- Hansen for Goldy, 4th - younger
- Pouliot for Pedan, 4th, saw off, same age
- Dowd for Subban, older
- Motte, Jokinen for Vanek - will give you younger here even if Vanek and Jokinen are both old
- Leipsic for Holm, younger

9 trades getting older, 8 younger and 2 saw offs. These are facts based on age. Odd way for a rebuilding team to rebuild, getting older even if some are only slightly.

Picks

11 out (2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th)
9 in (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th)

That is....not good for a rebuilding team, especially given two of those picks came in the Kesler deal (existing asset that had value), one in the Bieksa deal (same), Garrison, etc. He had assets to pick up assets and didn’t do well. Shows I mention that Mike Gillis was the one who traded for the pick that turned into Gaudette? I know we all want to give Benning all the credit there.

Record

- worst 3 year stretch in team history
- 2nd worst team in the league, points wise, over the last 3 years
- progressively getting worse each subsequent season in number of points

I like Benning, seems like a nice guy and I’m rooting for him. He’s not giving me much to go on here!

Nevermind the fact that the PR around this team has been handled about as poorly as you could possibly imagine, I’m amazed at how badly they’ve lost the plot. It’s like they don’t think at all when they speak then always have to go back and clarify points later. I’ve never seen it with another team on a consistent basis.

Believe me I’m trying to see your point of view and I just don’t get it. I really want to enjoy the kids who are coming up, love Pettersson’s game, love what Dahlen and Gaudette are doing, Demko looks like a stud. Boeser is amazing, Bo is our best player in my opinion, Virtanen and Juolevi I’m still hoping for big things from. I know I’m not mentioning everyone but you get the point. There will be more from this year’s draft as well. There could be a number of others on the way too if the team’s situation had been handled differently.

I’m not even going to touch on the FA contracts which have arguably been the worst part of this management team, because I’ve already made my feelings well known on this.

Can we name a team in the cap era that has rebuilt on the fly? Tampa, LA, Hawks, Pens, Toronto, Boston, Washington, etc all have multiple top picks in their lineups - though Boston is the one team that liked to trade them. All of these teams built their core through the draft and supplemented with trades and other picks. Anaheim maybe, they got lucky getting Perry and Getzlaf in the draft while they already had a very strong team. It’s extremely hard to do and takes a lot of luck.

I really hope I’m totally off base on this and Benning will take this team to new heights, I just don’t see the path to a top team after 40 years of watching hockey.

Now if I missed anything too bad, that’s all the time I have. :D

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by SKYO » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:30 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:15 pm
I'm glad Vanek came to play here. He was one of the more exciting players to watch with his slap shots off the rush, sweet passes and the ability to cause chaos in front of the net. He seemed to be a great guy in the dressing room and a great mentor to the kids as well. He was a great bargain player for $2M and prob one of my favourite players this season. Too bad we couldn't make the playoffs, if healthy, I think our guys can give most teams a good run for their money. I liked the idea of having 2 potential game breakers in the lineup with Vanek and Brockstar.
If you like Vanek, you'd love Zadina if the Canucks can get him in the draft, he's probably twice as good as Vanek was this season who is on pace for 53pts in 80 games this year.

Infinite options after this season is done for the Canucks to improve, get younger/faster, acquire more dreaded picks everyone is crying about and have some quality young guns start their NHL pro journey's together next season.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:54 am

SKYO wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:30 am
If you like Vanek, you'd love Zadina if the Canucks can get him in the draft, he's probably twice as good as Vanek was this season who is on pace for 53pts in 80 games this year.
But does he have a slap shot like Vanek? *hehe* Yeah, I'd like to see JB get a Dman in the draft, but if we end up with a potential sniper, can't complain to that. I'm sure it'll take awhile for Zadina to get to Vanek's lvl or if he even gets there. Vanek in his prime was a consistent 30-40G man.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Meds » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:22 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:54 am
SKYO wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:30 am
If you like Vanek, you'd love Zadina if the Canucks can get him in the draft, he's probably twice as good as Vanek was this season who is on pace for 53pts in 80 games this year.
But does he have a slap shot like Vanek? *hehe* Yeah, I'd like to see JB get a Dman in the draft, but if we end up with a potential sniper, can't complain to that. I'm sure it'll take awhile for Zadina to get to Vanek's lvl or if he even gets there. Vanek in his prime was a consistent 30-40G man.
He was? I see 4 seasons where he was in that range. 25-30 goals consistently. But not 40.

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