Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:11 am

UWSaint wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 am
Do you know what is a reasonably good outcome for a 3rd or 4th round pick? Leipsic and Motte. Not a very good outcome (Biesksa, Edler -- have there been any others in the past 15 years? Probably a couple), not a great outcome (e.g., Gaudreau), but a reasonably good one. A guy that can play in the NHL for a few years and take regular shifts.

There's a little more potential that might be squeezed out of these two, though it's probably not going to happen. Still, I think the profile on each is that while they've had success at points in their careers scoring goals, they profile to provide some value even if they don't. Unlike, say, Goldobin, who is basically boom or bust.

Bottom line: 3rd and 4th rounders are long shots to have really good outcomes; Hail Marys for great outcomes. And while it's not always the case, it is usually the case that even the better ones are going to take a few years post draft to get to the NHL.

A debate can be had about whether it is better to have a Leipsic type or a Motte type now with a year to make or break or in 4 or 5 years or for now. But most likely, that's what we are talking about and that's the debate to have.
Excellent post as usual U-dub. :thumbs:
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:15 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:09 am
@ UW. I don’t think anyone is tearing their hair out at the trades and not getting picks. My only point is that picks provide a longer control and more development time than 23 year old players. I just see a huge gaggle of 22-25 year old guys vying for the roster next year and only room for a handful considering other than Baertschi they are all 4th line/AHL fodder. Hopefully they thin out the herd before September. I really would have preferred that Boucher, Goldobin, Virtanen etc would get more of a shot down the stretch.
Fair points Blobman.

Although I wouldn't worry about which players get sent down.

A couple don't require waivers (Motte, Goldobin).

A couple are pending UFAs they might not care about losing (Jokinen, Archibald, Dowd).

I have faith they will make the right decisions... and with our injury luck they may not have to.
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Jovocop » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:06 pm

Doug Mclean might not be a great GM but he was an ex-GM.
Rick Dhaliwal‏ @DhaliwalSports

Doug Maclean on SN 650 : When I look at what the #Canucks had to move yesterday, Benning had to be the consummate real estate agent for them to take some other players. Tanev isn't healthy, its a knock on Tanev - so the price drops & its tough to make that deal.

Maclean on Vanek trade : If Vanek gets 3-4 goals for Columbus... That's a plus. That's what the market was - Kane and Maroon didn't go for enough either, so what did you expect for Vanek?

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by ESQ » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:56 am
A debate can be had about whether it is better to have a Leipsic type or a Motte type now with a year to make or break or in 4 or 5 years or for now. But most likely, that's what we are talking about and that's the debate to have.
These kinds of moves made sense to me in 2014/15/16, because of the space on the farm and in the roster, the age of the team, and the lack of prospects.

Now, there is room on the farm, and a lack of waiver-exempt youth. But Benning acquired NHL-roster players, with very little upside, who aren't waiver-exempt.

None of them are a big deal, because as Blob's been saying garbage-in, garbage-out. But I don't understand why these trades were made. If this is meant to say that Goldobin and Boucher are going nowhere on this club (which is implicit since their roster-bubble-spots are now gone), then why not move those players who likely had a bit of value (at least Goldobin should have)?

I guess I just don't see the organizational need that was addressed by these moves - small, sort-of skilled forwards that aren't waiver-exempt and may join the list of early-20s forwards that can't quite crack the NHL lineup.

It takes 2-3 years for a 3rd or 4th rounder picked out of NCAA to even make the AHL roster, so I see late-rounders as improving the pipeline of prospects a few years into the future, and also giving a chance of the pick turning out great - which will not happen with Leipsic and Motte.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:35 pm

And while Buffalo did trade Kane they were left with their other UFAs that they couldn't move. A handful of teams, Rangers as an example, were able to move out players and got decent returns. Ottawa and Montreal got some traction but not to the extent that they had hoped for.
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Diehard1 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm

Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?

This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.

Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick. It's hard to make that many bad trades and signings in the 4 years Benning has been here.

I give him credit for a few deals - Leipsic is a solid pickup, Pouliot I'm fine with, loved the Burrows deal. Granlund is meh given how terrible he's been this year with a ton of ice time, Baertschi is too given I'd rather have the player the Flames drafted with our 2nd than Baertschi, Dorsett for a 3rd is ok too but didn't work out for other reasons. The drafting of Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Demko, etc look very good and we already knew that was his strength.

The plan has been odd to say the least - Benning deserves any and all criticism he's received to date. I'm hopeful that this is going to change soon, but given what we've seen in the last 4 years I'm not all that convinced.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:07 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?

This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.

Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick. It's hard to make that many bad trades and signings in the 4 years Benning has been here.

I give him credit for a few deals - Leipsic is a solid pickup, Pouliot I'm fine with, loved the Burrows deal. Granlund is meh given how terrible he's been this year with a ton of ice time, Baertschi is too given I'd rather have the player the Flames drafted with our 2nd than Baertschi, Dorsett for a 3rd is ok too but didn't work out for other reasons. The drafting of Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Demko, etc look very good and we already knew that was his strength.

The plan has been odd to say the least - Benning deserves any and all criticism he's received to date. I'm hopeful that this is going to change soon, but given what we've seen in the last 4 years I'm not all that convinced.

Thanks for clarifying. I get it now.
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:43 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?

This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.
As a fellow skeptic, I can certainly empathize Diehard, but I don't think Vanek is a hill to Die(hard) on. If Benning didn't trade him, we'd be livid. That he did and got nothing for him just fits the Benning mold.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Meds » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:01 pm

Doc I must retract. It seems Diehard is indeed quite upset.

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:24 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick.
Yep.... but the people here will not agree with this. Other than a few of us you are beating your head against a wall.

It’s the Branch Davidian/planet of the apes basically.

Lord Elmer/Koresh has never made a mistake. I feel like Taylor trying to communicate with Doctor Zeus and Cornelius and a horde of apes
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by sagebrush » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:59 pm

The market just didn't appreciate our castoffs. The respect wasn't there.
No point is getting worked up about it...

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:04 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:47 pm
Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?

This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.

Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick. It's hard to make that many bad trades and signings in the 4 years Benning has been here.

I give him credit for a few deals - Leipsic is a solid pickup, Pouliot I'm fine with, loved the Burrows deal. Granlund is meh given how terrible he's been this year with a ton of ice time, Baertschi is too given I'd rather have the player the Flames drafted with our 2nd than Baertschi, Dorsett for a 3rd is ok too but didn't work out for other reasons. The drafting of Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Demko, etc look very good and we already knew that was his strength.

The plan has been odd to say the least - Benning deserves any and all criticism he's received to date. I'm hopeful that this is going to change soon, but given what we've seen in the last 4 years I'm not all that convinced.

You are UN. FUCKING. REAL.

I keep responding to your complaints... and you keep completely ignoring those responses.

Here's a link... and please check out the link within the link:

http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 48#p299448

How many times do I have to point out it wasn't a 2nd + Bonino for Sutter

... it was a 9-spot-pick-upgrade (55th to 64th) + Bonino for Sutter.

(and they still got the player they wanted in Lockwood)

(and most people here think Sutts is better for this team than Bones, yes I know about the 2 Cups)

You keep saying "11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in"... but that's deceptive.

You're not counting the 2nd from Columbus (Torts) and you're including the 2018 draft (we don't know yet).

The 2nd from Columbus was not earned by GMJB, but it took some pressure off in the Acquire Picks Dept.

The rest of your concerns are addressed in the links provided...
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:04 pm

You're not counting the 2nd from Columbus (Torts, thanks Mike!) and you're including the 2018 draft (we don't know yet, he may yet trade away more).

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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:11 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:07 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:04 pm

You're not counting the 2nd from Columbus (Torts, thanks Mike!) and you're including the 2018 draft (we don't know yet, he may yet trade away more).
As I said: "The 2nd from Columbus was not earned by GMJB, but it took some pressure off in the Acquire Picks Dept."

"he may yet trade away more"

Yet another reason why it shouldn't be tallied yet, thank you...
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Re: Trades made - Trade Deadline Day 2018

Post by Strangelove » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:12 pm

Meds wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:01 pm
Doc I must retract. It seems Diehard is indeed quite upset.
Thank you, it takes a 7' 6" man to admit he's wrong. :wink:
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