The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

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RoyalDude
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 am

Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:41 am
RoyalDude wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:57 am
There is still hope we could win one of the 3 lottery rolls, but duh, who we kidding, it's the Vancouver Canucks.
What do you do if we get second or third? Pick the obvious winger, trade down for a dman? First is a no brainer and badly needed, but not sure yet another winger is the best use resources.

I would probably pick the winger and look to trade another of the young guys for another pick to grab a dman, as both Svechnikov and Zadina should be top line guys.
I think you have to go with one of the wingers. Then throw millions at one of the CKarls(s)ons or weaponize the cap room and get more 1st round picks maybe getting D-men like McIsaac, Wilde, Woo or Smith and keep drafting D-men the rest of the draft
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by micky107 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:06 am

Well Golly-Geez!!!!!
Seems like most round these parts are of the mind set that:

Work hard, get some hard earned cash, then on a whim, take it ALL to the casino and play with the big boys.
"evolution"

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:21 am

We have to fill some of that gaping $14 million cap hole created by the Twins departure? Yeah/No?
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by micky107 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:23 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:21 am
We have to fill some of that gaping $14 million cap hole created by the Twins departure? Yeah/No?
Of course, but be patient and the best will come to you, right?
"evolution"

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Diehard1 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:20 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 am
Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:41 am
RoyalDude wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:57 am
There is still hope we could win one of the 3 lottery rolls, but duh, who we kidding, it's the Vancouver Canucks.
What do you do if we get second or third? Pick the obvious winger, trade down for a dman? First is a no brainer and badly needed, but not sure yet another winger is the best use resources.

I would probably pick the winger and look to trade another of the young guys for another pick to grab a dman, as both Svechnikov and Zadina should be top line guys.
I think you have to go with one of the wingers. Then throw millions at one of the CKarls(s)ons or weaponize the cap room and get more 1st round picks maybe getting D-men like McIsaac, Wilde, Woo or Smith and keep drafting D-men the rest of the draft
Ya I agree, take one of the wingers. Say you get Zadina, then with Goldy, Sven, Jake, Brock, Loui, Leipsic, Gagner and maybe a kid or two there are too many wingers for the top 3 lines. Trade one for either a young dman or a pick to take a dman.

I’d be much, much more willing to go after Erik Karlsson than almost any other dman on the market. He would,be just what the doctor ordered and given his age would be still contributing when the team hopefully gets good in a few years. Highly doubt he would want to come to a rebuild though.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by SKYO » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:20 pm

Yeah if the Canucks get the 2nd or 3rd overall you should take one of the wingers - having another young lethal weapon up front would really help the rebuild scoring wise, especially with the Sedins retired.

Even still, with the Canucks lack of defense prospects the team needs to pile up the draft picks to take a slew of dmen in this draft along with getting some dmen prospects via trade.

Piling up picks while having cap space also opens up another avenue of dmen acquisition via RFA's that a team can't re-sign, like Dougie Hamilton with the Bruins where the Flames had the draft picks to trade and give him what he wanted money wise.
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:38 pm

SKYO wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:20 pm


the team needs to pile up the draft picks

Gee who’s been saying that for four years. Your overlords aren’t going like you stepping out of line like this. They feel Elmer should only make the allotted number of picks each draft and no more than that.
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by SKYO » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:22 pm

Nay, the owners - the billionaire bosses who pay for everything - originally wanted a playoff rebound instantly when they canned MG (mr NTC extraordinaire), but then accepted a rebuild after.

Now JB/TL can start to play their cards right for this rebuild that has some good pieces in place, AND now to move out a few more vets for picks to get this rebuild into fast track.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:31 pm

So the owners weren’t allowing Elmer to acquire any picks ?

Very interesting
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by SKYO » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:08 pm

Image
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:15 pm

It's gonna be sad seeing Bubbles and Nuckles still getting mad at Elmer while the era takes over this city by storm
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Meds » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:42 am
Meds wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:11 am
Meds wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:34 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:12 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:39 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:26 am
it will be interesting to see if the front office decides to change their 'keep the core together' tactic that has failed so miserably over the past 3 years now that the twins are no longer around.
:eh:
Worst overall record in the NHL over the past 3 seasons doesn’t lie.
The core? Lmao. All that was left of the core going into this season was the Sedins and Edler.
If we are talking about the 2011 core sure, but who is talking about that? This is 2018, probably time to move on. Over the past 3 years, who is a ‘core’ player they have moved? Hasn’t been one - Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Eriksson, Horvat, all still here or soon to be retired. I guess you could say Burrows and Hansen, but I wouldn’t say they were core guys anymore.

The point is how loyal they’ve been to a core that has produced the worst results in the league over the past 3 years (can’t argue with the record). Now that the twins are gone they have a chance to change their tune and do things differently. Maybe we should wait to see what they do? I for one am very interested in the road forward and hope for some big changes.

You Benning apologists are so sensitive, can’t help but think everything is a shot at him even if it’s not.
Well, The Gillis core was who? Hank, Danny, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Luongo?

Of those guys all but Luongo were still here when Benning took over. He was forced to immediately move out Kesler.

He then continued on with the others for another season. Hamhuis refused to open up his NTC beyond a pair of teams. Bieksa was more accommodating.

Hansen and Burr both went willingly for decent returns.

Benning came in and moved out 66% of that core while stating that he was planning to build a new core from the ground up. So then he acquired some placeholders for the interim as well as some future pieces that had the potential to be a part of a new core or, failing that, at least support it.

Sutter, Baertschi, Eriksson, Gudbranson, Granlund, and Gagner, are names that fit the bill of placeholders with potential. Only Sutter (yeah he's overpaid and overrated), Baertschi, and Gudbranson, look like they might be good additions to surround a new core that Benning hopes to build around Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Juolevi, and Demko. I think that Virtanen might also be a guy they want to see as a core player, but he has to smarten up his game and his consistency.

So your definition of an old core to which Benning's loyalty is subject is somewhat lacking in basis.

The only truly core players, remaining with the team going into 2018-19, that we've seen in a Canucks uniform for more than a couple of games in the last 4 years are Horvat and Boeser. But yeah, you're right Diehard, they suck, be rid of them and transition to the next group.....what's your real name, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, or Darryl Katz?
Well, if this isn’t completely changing what I said to make a non-existent argument. What the hell are you going on about? Who said anything about the Gillis core aside from you?

The core isn’t the 2011 core. It’s this team’s core. Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Baertschi, Gudbranson. They have been the worst team in the league in the last 3 seasons combined, that’s not up for debate, that’s just by number of points. Befor you get your knickers in a twist that’s not a shot at your boy Benning, that’s just stating facts.

The new core, the one that I’m excited about (yes I’ve consistently said this) is Horvat, Boeser, Stecher, Virtanen and the kids who are coming soon.

Now, getting back to my original point before you went off on a tangent that made zero sense, does Benning continue to hold on to Tanev, Sutter, Edler et al with the twins gone? Now it’s a full rebuild if he wants it, my point (again) was that Benning now has the chance to go full rebuild as opposed to sticking with what’s proven to be a crappy core (again, worst in the league by points last 3 seasons, not debatable).

Feel free to respond by going off on some point that I didn’t make, whatever floats your boat.
The core of the past 3 years was Hank, Dank, Edler, Tanev, and to a lesser extent Sutter and Miller. Horvat joined that group 2 seasons ago.

The fact that you think this team had much of a "core" to be loyal to is laughable.

Benning is hardly "my boy".

Virtanen and Stecher are not core players. Not yet at least.

Suggesting that there is misplaced loyalty to Sutter, Edler, Tanev, etc., is ridiculous.

Edler holds all the cards in moving him, always has. That isn't loyalty.

Sutter was brought in to shore up the "middle" six, he wasn't brought in to score. He was expected to win faceoffs and play hard while matching up against opposing top lines and PP's. I suspect that Benning was hoping for Kesler lite.

Tanev has been our most consistent defenseman, if not player, over those past 3 years. Injury prone as hell though. There has been plenty of talk about him being moved over the last couple of seasons, and that escalated this year with rumors of a trade with Toronto being discussed prior to Tanev getting hurt.....again. That doesn't sound like loyalty to me, if anything it sounds like Elmer is not wanting to get taken advantage of and end up looking like he did in the Kesler trade (not that that was his fault).

Gudbranson has been on "show me" contracts all along, and his latest deal is only 3 years. Again, hardly a show of loyalty. Moreover, he has only played 82 games over the past 2 seasons, so is he part of the 3 year problem or not?

What does full rebuild look like to you?

Are you wanting to gut the team completely? I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume you want to keep Horvat, Virtanen, and Stecher. So we should trade all of Markstrom, Nilsson, Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, Baertschi, Gagner, and Eriksson, for picks and prospects, and then rebuild through free agency and the draft? We don't have a deep enough prospect pool that are NHL ready to even possibly do better next season if we replace those guys fromt here. After Tavares and Carlson, this year's free agent pool would be just as effective as a "core" of vets and placeholders to play around Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Pettersson, and Gaudette. Where do you find your goalie? Demko isn't ready to carry the load of a starter.

But hey, I'm sure you have an idea you'd like to share.

Diehard1
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Diehard1 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:10 pm

Meds wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:42 am
Meds wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:36 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:11 am
Meds wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:34 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:12 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:39 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:26 am
it will be interesting to see if the front office decides to change their 'keep the core together' tactic that has failed so miserably over the past 3 years now that the twins are no longer around.
:eh:
Worst overall record in the NHL over the past 3 seasons doesn’t lie.
The core? Lmao. All that was left of the core going into this season was the Sedins and Edler.
If we are talking about the 2011 core sure, but who is talking about that? This is 2018, probably time to move on. Over the past 3 years, who is a ‘core’ player they have moved? Hasn’t been one - Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Eriksson, Horvat, all still here or soon to be retired. I guess you could say Burrows and Hansen, but I wouldn’t say they were core guys anymore.

The point is how loyal they’ve been to a core that has produced the worst results in the league over the past 3 years (can’t argue with the record). Now that the twins are gone they have a chance to change their tune and do things differently. Maybe we should wait to see what they do? I for one am very interested in the road forward and hope for some big changes.

You Benning apologists are so sensitive, can’t help but think everything is a shot at him even if it’s not.
Well, The Gillis core was who? Hank, Danny, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Edler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Luongo?

Of those guys all but Luongo were still here when Benning took over. He was forced to immediately move out Kesler.

He then continued on with the others for another season. Hamhuis refused to open up his NTC beyond a pair of teams. Bieksa was more accommodating.

Hansen and Burr both went willingly for decent returns.

Benning came in and moved out 66% of that core while stating that he was planning to build a new core from the ground up. So then he acquired some placeholders for the interim as well as some future pieces that had the potential to be a part of a new core or, failing that, at least support it.

Sutter, Baertschi, Eriksson, Gudbranson, Granlund, and Gagner, are names that fit the bill of placeholders with potential. Only Sutter (yeah he's overpaid and overrated), Baertschi, and Gudbranson, look like they might be good additions to surround a new core that Benning hopes to build around Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Juolevi, and Demko. I think that Virtanen might also be a guy they want to see as a core player, but he has to smarten up his game and his consistency.

So your definition of an old core to which Benning's loyalty is subject is somewhat lacking in basis.

The only truly core players, remaining with the team going into 2018-19, that we've seen in a Canucks uniform for more than a couple of games in the last 4 years are Horvat and Boeser. But yeah, you're right Diehard, they suck, be rid of them and transition to the next group.....what's your real name, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, or Darryl Katz?
Well, if this isn’t completely changing what I said to make a non-existent argument. What the hell are you going on about? Who said anything about the Gillis core aside from you?

The core isn’t the 2011 core. It’s this team’s core. Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Baertschi, Gudbranson. They have been the worst team in the league in the last 3 seasons combined, that’s not up for debate, that’s just by number of points. Befor you get your knickers in a twist that’s not a shot at your boy Benning, that’s just stating facts.

The new core, the one that I’m excited about (yes I’ve consistently said this) is Horvat, Boeser, Stecher, Virtanen and the kids who are coming soon.

Now, getting back to my original point before you went off on a tangent that made zero sense, does Benning continue to hold on to Tanev, Sutter, Edler et al with the twins gone? Now it’s a full rebuild if he wants it, my point (again) was that Benning now has the chance to go full rebuild as opposed to sticking with what’s proven to be a crappy core (again, worst in the league by points last 3 seasons, not debatable).

Feel free to respond by going off on some point that I didn’t make, whatever floats your boat.
The core of the past 3 years was Hank, Dank, Edler, Tanev, and to a lesser extent Sutter and Miller. Horvat joined that group 2 seasons ago.

The fact that you think this team had much of a "core" to be loyal to is laughable.

Benning is hardly "my boy".

Virtanen and Stecher are not core players. Not yet at least.

Suggesting that there is misplaced loyalty to Sutter, Edler, Tanev, etc., is ridiculous.

Edler holds all the cards in moving him, always has. That isn't loyalty.

Sutter was brought in to shore up the "middle" six, he wasn't brought in to score. He was expected to win faceoffs and play hard while matching up against opposing top lines and PP's. I suspect that Benning was hoping for Kesler lite.

Tanev has been our most consistent defenseman, if not player, over those past 3 years. Injury prone as hell though. There has been plenty of talk about him being moved over the last couple of seasons, and that escalated this year with rumors of a trade with Toronto being discussed prior to Tanev getting hurt.....again. That doesn't sound like loyalty to me, if anything it sounds like Elmer is not wanting to get taken advantage of and end up looking like he did in the Kesler trade (not that that was his fault).

Gudbranson has been on "show me" contracts all along, and his latest deal is only 3 years. Again, hardly a show of loyalty. Moreover, he has only played 82 games over the past 2 seasons, so is he part of the 3 year problem or not?

What does full rebuild look like to you?

Are you wanting to gut the team completely? I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume you want to keep Horvat, Virtanen, and Stecher. So we should trade all of Markstrom, Nilsson, Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, Baertschi, Gagner, and Eriksson, for picks and prospects, and then rebuild through free agency and the draft? We don't have a deep enough prospect pool that are NHL ready to even possibly do better next season if we replace those guys fromt here. After Tavares and Carlson, this year's free agent pool would be just as effective as a "core" of vets and placeholders to play around Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Pettersson, and Gaudette. Where do you find your goalie? Demko isn't ready to carry the load of a starter.

But hey, I'm sure you have an idea you'd like to share.
What does full rebuild look like to you?

Do we really have to rehash this? It’s been done to death. Don’t trade picks and young players for average dmen, don’t throw in picks in multiple (12 actually) trades, let the young guys play, don’t so much on middling vets like Sutter, Eriksson, Guddy, etc, don’t sign average and below average vets for multiple years - It’s not that hard to spot the difference. Draft a ton of kids and let them play, that’s the full rebuild.

And no, your last paragraph isn’t close to what I think - do you actually think anybody is saying to trade everyone over 25? If you look at the offseason thread I think I spelled out my thinking pretty clearly.

I think the full rebuild may finally start this offseason, at least I’m hopeful it does. To date it’s been a half rebuild made slightly quicker by how bad the team has been.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Meds » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:16 am

Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:10 pm
Meds wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
The core isn’t the 2011 core. It’s this team’s core. Sedins, Edler, Tanev, Sutter, Baertschi, Gudbranson. They have been the worst team in the league in the last 3 seasons combined, that’s not up for debate, that’s just by number of points. Befor you get your knickers in a twist that’s not a shot at your boy Benning, that’s just stating facts.

The new core, the one that I’m excited about (yes I’ve consistently said this) is Horvat, Boeser, Stecher, Virtanen and the kids who are coming soon.

Now, getting back to my original point before you went off on a tangent that made zero sense, does Benning continue to hold on to Tanev, Sutter, Edler et al with the twins gone? Now it’s a full rebuild if he wants it, my point (again) was that Benning now has the chance to go full rebuild as opposed to sticking with what’s proven to be a crappy core (again, worst in the league by points last 3 seasons, not debatable).

Feel free to respond by going off on some point that I didn’t make, whatever floats your boat.
The core of the past 3 years was Hank, Dank, Edler, Tanev, and to a lesser extent Sutter and Miller. Horvat joined that group 2 seasons ago.

The fact that you think this team had much of a "core" to be loyal to is laughable.

Benning is hardly "my boy".

Virtanen and Stecher are not core players. Not yet at least.

Suggesting that there is misplaced loyalty to Sutter, Edler, Tanev, etc., is ridiculous.

Edler holds all the cards in moving him, always has. That isn't loyalty.

Sutter was brought in to shore up the "middle" six, he wasn't brought in to score. He was expected to win faceoffs and play hard while matching up against opposing top lines and PP's. I suspect that Benning was hoping for Kesler lite.

Tanev has been our most consistent defenseman, if not player, over those past 3 years. Injury prone as hell though. There has been plenty of talk about him being moved over the last couple of seasons, and that escalated this year with rumors of a trade with Toronto being discussed prior to Tanev getting hurt.....again. That doesn't sound like loyalty to me, if anything it sounds like Elmer is not wanting to get taken advantage of and end up looking like he did in the Kesler trade (not that that was his fault).

Gudbranson has been on "show me" contracts all along, and his latest deal is only 3 years. Again, hardly a show of loyalty. Moreover, he has only played 82 games over the past 2 seasons, so is he part of the 3 year problem or not?

What does full rebuild look like to you?

Are you wanting to gut the team completely? I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume you want to keep Horvat, Virtanen, and Stecher. So we should trade all of Markstrom, Nilsson, Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, Baertschi, Gagner, and Eriksson, for picks and prospects, and then rebuild through free agency and the draft? We don't have a deep enough prospect pool that are NHL ready to even possibly do better next season if we replace those guys fromt here. After Tavares and Carlson, this year's free agent pool would be just as effective as a "core" of vets and placeholders to play around Horvat, Virtanen, Boeser, Pettersson, and Gaudette. Where do you find your goalie? Demko isn't ready to carry the load of a starter.

But hey, I'm sure you have an idea you'd like to share.
What does full rebuild look like to you?

Do we really have to rehash this? It’s been done to death. Don’t trade picks and young players for average dmen, don’t throw in picks in multiple (12 actually) trades, let the young guys play, don’t so much on middling vets like Sutter, Eriksson, Guddy, etc, don’t sign average and below average vets for multiple years - It’s not that hard to spot the difference. Draft a ton of kids and let them play, that’s the full rebuild.

And no, your last paragraph isn’t close to what I think - do you actually think anybody is saying to trade everyone over 25? If you look at the offseason thread I think I spelled out my thinking pretty clearly.

I think the full rebuild may finally start this offseason, at least I’m hopeful it does. To date it’s been a half rebuild made slightly quicker by how bad the team has been.
Benning's hands were tied from day one when it came to trading away core vets for picks and prospects. Almost all of said vets held NTC's of some kind. He pissed away a few picks to make deals, which weren't his best moves, but he was under marching orders for at least the first two years to keep the team competitive and in the playoffs.

You won't hear any argument from me regarding no spending so much on vets like Sutter, Eriksson, and Gudbranson. Of that trio, only Eriksson is a disgusting over payment in my opinion. Terrible UFA signing, truly bad, probably Elmer's very worst move as GM.

Sutter was not a terrible trade. The optics are horrid because of the contract he gave Sutter after acquiring him and what Bonino did in Pittsburgh the following year, they look less atrocious when you look at what Bonino has done since signing in Nashville for the same money as Sutter. It almost makes the trade look like a landslide win for Benning. Sutter is very much worth having on the team at a salary about $500K less than what he makes now, so even the over payment isn't that appalling.

Gudbranson cost us McCann, and it's hard to say if that is going to look really bad or not, depends on McCann. Gudbranson's contract renewals have not been horrible. $4Mx3 for a #4 dman who plays a hard game on a rebuilding team is workable. If he doesn't improve and start to reach his originally assumed potential, a contender will take him in year 3 to add depth and grit for the playoffs.

Beyond them it's not like we are seeing a ton of boat anchor contracts.

Are you suggesting an Oilersesque rebuild? Because that still isn't working even with McDavid. None of their top picks had a clue how to win until after they were traded away from Edmonton, some of them still haven't.

The full tank rebuild is no guarantee of anything, and with the draft lottery now giving the first round pick away more often to teams that finish above the bottom 3, it's even less of a good method.

Simply letting kids play has not worked anywhere to date. By all means acquire as many young prospects as possible, but unless you are drafting a generational talent like McDavid or Matthews, you have to shelter them with some vets.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am

What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).

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