The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

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RoyalDude
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:09 am

The Never Ending Full Tank Rebuilds

- Edmonton Oilers
- Buffalo Sabres

Rip roaring successes

The Hockey Writers last NHL Team Prospect Pool Rankings

Canucks - 6th
Sabres - 20th
Oilers - 21st

Hmmmmmm, interesting.
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by dbr » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:31 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
They're going to be bad next year pretty much no matter what.

That said, in 2019-20 they're going to have a handful of guys in their age 23-25 years (Bo, Boeser, Goldobin, Gaudette, Virtanen) plus guys like Juolevi and Pettersson and probably this year's 1st rounder on the roster.

It's not a murderer's row but insulating them with Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sutter, and [whatever the product of 18 months of non-disastrous cap/UFA management is] could give you a playoff team.

And I don't think hockey ops has the freedom to just decline to compete for the playoffs.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by ESQ » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by rats19 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:03 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?
Not offhand I can’t
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Diehard1 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:22 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:09 am
The Never Ending Full Tank Rebuilds

- Edmonton Oilers
- Buffalo Sabres

Rip roaring successes

The Hockey Writers last NHL Team Prospect Pool Rankings

Canucks - 6th
Sabres - 20th
Oilers - 21st

Hmmmmmm, interesting.
Don't forget these rebuilds:

LA - 2, 4, 5 picks in successive years
Pittsburgh - 2 1st overalls and a 2nd
Chicago - 1st overall and 3rd
Winnipeg - 7, 9, 7, 2 in a 6 year period
Tampa - 1 and 2 overall in successive years
Toronto - 1, 5, 7, 8 in 4 of 5 years
Jersey - 1, 4, 6 in the past 5 or 6 years (traded their 4th overall for an MVP candidate)
Columbus - 7, 6, 4, 2, 8, 3 in the past 10 years

Need I go on? Everybody uses Edmonton (and now Buffalo) as the examples while ignoring the numerous examples of teams that drafted well with high picks and it's helped to build a foundation of a contender or even cup winner. Edmonton is a perfect example of what not to do, and Buffalo is getting there though they have maybe another year or two before they are in Edmonton's class.

I prefer to focus on teams that have done it right, there are more examples of that than those that have done it wrong.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Diehard1 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:26 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?
3 years? I guess the Virtanen 6th overall doesn't count? That was a pretty terrible year for the Nucks, so I think we have to include that as a 'rebuild' year unless we say it's just a crappy year. Even in that year we got Jake, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin and Forsling, along with trading for the pick that became Gaudette. If we had all those guys in the lineup or prospect pool right now things would look at lot better, but even with just Jake, Demko and Gaudette it's a big part of the foundation moving forward.

And yes, we've been unlucky in the lottery. Not much we can do about that, Bettman loves the idea that it discourages tanking even though there's zero evidence of that. If you want to blame anybody for the lottery, blame Buffalo and Edmonton as they shamelessly tanked a few years back.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:18 am

ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?
Can you name a worse NHL team over those three years? Excluding Vegas for obvious reasons, the Canucks have won the fewest games/lowest point%, have the lowest ROW, scored the fewest goals, and sit in the bottom-5 of goals against, PP and PK, and shots/gm.

You exclude more than half the league (no lottery winners - so no Toronto, Edmonton, Dallas, Philly, Winnipeg, New Jersey, Columbus or teams on a longer streak - Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina, or teams not rebuilding - a lot), and yeah our prospect pool looks pretty damn good.

When it comes to the on-ice product, there is no discernible difference between a tanking team and whatever the Canucks have been, and it's not a stretch to say we'd have an extra 5-10 prospects had management been prioritizing draft picks for the future instead of live bodies that clearly haven't helped at all in the present.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:11 am

The 2014 draft was a result of a season under the previous regime. Bennings first season we made the playoffs, yes it's been ugly since the 2014-15 playoff season.

I'm confused, what 2018 lottery team has been officially on record as tanking/fully rebuilding over the last 3 seasons? I look at all of the 2018 lottery teams and every one of them has made moves over the last 3 seasons that are not A typical of a team in a "rebuild" especially for teams consistently ending up a top lottery team like the Canucks have over the last 3 seasons. Like Buffalo (signed Okposo in 2016), like Arizona ( who traded their 2017 1st to the Rangers for Stepan. Rangers drafted Andersson 6th overall, Arizona's first)

Buffalo has drafted Top 10 in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and has made many moves in that time that are not typical of a "full tank/rebuilding" team

All that matters is how our prospect pool has improved over the last 3 years and according to the pundits out there, the Canucks prospect pool is highly regarded (see Craig Buttons top 50) and considering how awful it was when Benning took over, that's a huge and important area of improvement for a team that needed work in that area.

Again Benning has had 43 draft picks over 4 drafts of 7 picks per draft (42 total) is that supposed to be bad or something?
Last edited by RoyalDude on Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by ESQ » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:18 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:18 am
ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?
Can you name a worse NHL team over those three years? Excluding Vegas for obvious reasons, the Canucks have won the fewest games/lowest point%, have the lowest ROW, scored the fewest goals, and sit in the bottom-5 of goals against, PP and PK, and shots/gm.

You exclude more than half the league (no lottery winners - so no Toronto, Edmonton, Dallas, Philly, Winnipeg, New Jersey, Columbus or teams on a longer streak - Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina, or teams not rebuilding - a lot), and yeah our prospect pool looks pretty damn good.

When it comes to the on-ice product, there is no discernible difference between a tanking team and whatever the Canucks have been, and it's not a stretch to say we'd have an extra 5-10 prospects had management been prioritizing draft picks for the future instead of live bodies that clearly haven't helped at all in the present.
Thanks for not answering my question.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:54 pm

ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:18 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:18 am
ESQ wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:51 am
What’s the difference betweeen a “full tank rebuild” and the current Vancouver Canucks? The current Vancouver Canucks have a smaller prospect pool and a pile of useless talking points (winning culture, culture carriers, mentors, playing the right way, foundational etc.).
Can you name a team with a bigger/better prospect pool that has been rebuilding for only 3 yards and has lost the lottery every year?
Can you name a worse NHL team over those three years? Excluding Vegas for obvious reasons, the Canucks have won the fewest games/lowest point%, have the lowest ROW, scored the fewest goals, and sit in the bottom-5 of goals against, PP and PK, and shots/gm.

You exclude more than half the league (no lottery winners - so no Toronto, Edmonton, Dallas, Philly, Winnipeg, New Jersey, Columbus or teams on a longer streak - Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina, or teams not rebuilding - a lot), and yeah our prospect pool looks pretty damn good.

When it comes to the on-ice product, there is no discernible difference between a tanking team and whatever the Canucks have been, and it's not a stretch to say we'd have an extra 5-10 prospects had management been prioritizing draft picks for the future instead of live bodies that clearly haven't helped at all in the present.
Thanks for not answering my question.
I thought I did. Of course the Canucks are in great shape when you exclude most of the league from the comparison.

Anyways, my initial point wasn't to compare the Canucks with the Sabres (or anyone). I was merely pointing out that the Canucks would be no worse on the ice had they adopted a full-tank approach, but would have more prospects than they do currently.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:13 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:11 am
I'm confused
More honesty.
Again Benning has had 43 draft picks over 4 drafts of 7 picks per draft (42 total) is that supposed to be bad or something?
Math ain't your game (7 x 4 =/= 42).
All that matters is how our prospect pool has improved over the last 3 years and according to the pundits out there, the Canucks prospect pool is highly regarded (see Craig Buttons top 50) and considering how awful it was when Benning took over, that's a huge and important area of improvement for a team that needed work in that area.
Literally nobody disagrees with this.

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:50 pm

What the fuck is the full tank approach? Holy cow? No professional team no matter the sport sets out the season to lose and not be competitive. Why the hell do you think a team like Buffalo throws big money at Okposo, trades futures for OReilly, Lehner, Kane or the Coyotes trade a 2017 1st for Stepan
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by Reefer2 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:02 pm

Does Vegas have a top pick this year?

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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:25 am

Ruffles, I believe the G-Knights traded their 2018 1st to Detroit for Tatar.
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Re: The 2018 NHL Entry Draft

Post by RoyalDude » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:31 am

The more I read on the prospects in that 2nd tier after the consensus top 4 the more I like Noah Dobson and the less I like Bouchard and Hughes. Bouchard strikes me as a Jason Garrison, slow and soft. Hughes has a horrid muffin of a shot and is getting beat up for his defensive play and 5 on 5 play. Dobson does everything very well
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