Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

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RoyalDude
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by RoyalDude » Thu May 17, 2018 11:11 am

No must not take note of the wonderful situation, the surroundings, the cushioning, The mentorship, the environment, the elite team that Sergachev is on.

Let’s reserve judgement for when Juolevi has arrived to the NHL and been given the time and opportunity to prove his wears. Really surprised how a seasoned Canuck fan in Blobbee how he has written the book on a prospect whom has yet to play a game in the NHL. Extremely surprised, which leads to believe only one explanation - “ Displaced Aggression” over not drafting Taychook.
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Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:03 am
Bub has been writing off Juolevi since the day he was drafted. This affliction is typically defined as Displaced Aggression, ie - “we didn’t draft Tkachuk???!!! Juolevi is the scum of the earth!!!!”
lol what a wad of shit. I haven’t written off anyone. Fact is both Virtanen and Juolevi were not the right picks at all, but that isn’t writing them off. I hope they both become decent players. But only a moron would say they’d rather have these two guys than the guys who went after them. And only a troll would continue to say that Elmer didn’t make a mistake..
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Post by Richardstroker69 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:03 am
Bub has been writing off Juolevi since the day he was drafted. This affliction is typically defined as Displaced Aggression, ie - “we didn’t draft Tkachuk???!!! Juolevi is the scum of the earth!!!!”
lol what a wad of shit. I haven’t written off anyone. Fact is both Virtanen and Juolevi were not the right picks at all, but that isn’t writing them off. I hope they both become decent players. But only a moron would say they’d rather have these two guys than the guys who went after them. And only a troll would continue to say that Elmer didn’t make a mistake..
I’d rather have joulevi than tkachuk (caveat being he develops into a top 4 dman which is fairly conservative estimate). Dmen are more valuable plain and simple. When guys like hamonic get traded for a first and 2 seconds, hall for larsson, gudbranson for a first and second, Jones for a what’s his nuts. League wide value points to joulevi being the better pick at the time. Picking tkachuk just puts us back another couple of years in the rebuild.

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Post by Strangelove » Thu May 17, 2018 1:08 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:22 pm
SKYO wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm
If you really want a 5 year rebuild, then look for a MEGA defenseman trade to happen by the 2019 trade deadline or July 1st, 2019 UFA signing.
I can be flexible, relaxed --mellow, even -- about how long the rebuild going to take, but what I really want is for the architect of the rebuild, or one of his apologists here, to commit to a timeline of how long it is supposed to take, so that we can have a point at which we can assess whether or not the plan has worked.

Points to Doc for being bold in this regard.

If the Canucks do not "look good in the 2019 playoffs", does that mean it's time for a new plan?
What was Strange BOLD? You mean saying they will make the playoffs next year or something like that. Really need to get my memory checked.
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Post by Strangelove » Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 10:03 am
Bub has been writing off Juolevi since the day he was drafted. This affliction is typically defined as Displaced Aggression, ie - “we didn’t draft Tkachuk???!!! Juolevi is the scum of the earth!!!!”
I concur.
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Post by Strangelove » Thu May 17, 2018 1:10 pm

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 pm
I’d rather have joulevi than tkachuk
Agreed.
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Post by SKYO » Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:22 pm
SKYO wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm
If you really want a 5 year rebuild, then look for a MEGA defenseman trade to happen by the 2019 trade deadline or July 1st, 2019 UFA signing.
I can be flexible, relaxed --mellow, even -- about how long the rebuild going to take, but what I really want is for the architect of the rebuild, or one of his apologists here, to commit to a timeline of how long it is supposed to take, so that we can have a point at which we can assess whether or not the plan has worked.

Points to Doc for being bold in this regard.

If the Canucks do not "look good in the 2019 playoffs", does that mean it's time for a new plan?
SL who is the dreamer in full aggressive rebuild timeline mode, while I'm realist!

Next year (2019) is too quick for the playoffs unless the team acquires a Parayko or something crazy like that, but if the team goes along with the steady drafting and development I'd say 2020/2021 onwards will be when the new Canucks core should be in full swing for many years.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Post by SKYO » Thu May 17, 2018 1:30 pm

Before the playoffs end the Canucks should look to trade Hutton and Granlund for picks, the team has a clogged LD and they should start to make room for dmen, the bottom pairing should be Pouliot and Guddy, with Juolevi starting his season in the AHL for at least half a season, then make his way to NHL by Jan/Feb.

Also should try to make room up front for Dahlen, Gaudette and Pettersson.
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Post by Strangelove » Thu May 17, 2018 1:32 pm

SKYO wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 pm
SL who is the dreamer in full aggressive rebuild timeline mode, while I'm realist!
I started saying "Try to focus on 3-4 years from now" back in 2015.

(in 2016 it was "... 2-3 years", in 2017 it was "... 1-2 years", now it is 0-1 years)

When pressed by Cliffy about what will happen by 2019 I said make the playoffs.

Didn't you agree the other day that the playoffs are a possibility next season? :?
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Post by Ronning's Ghost » Thu May 17, 2018 1:40 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 am
What was Strange BOLD? You mean saying they will make the playoffs next year or something like that. Really need to get my memory checked.
Sarcasm ?
SKYO wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:22 pm
SKYO wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 pm
If you really want a 5 year rebuild, then look for a MEGA defenseman trade to happen by the 2019 trade deadline or July 1st, 2019 UFA signing.
I can be flexible, relaxed --mellow, even -- about how long the rebuild going to take, but what I really want is for the architect of the rebuild, or one of his apologists here, to commit to a timeline of how long it is supposed to take, so that we can have a point at which we can assess whether or not the plan has worked.

Points to Doc for being bold in this regard.

If the Canucks do not "look good in the 2019 playoffs", does that mean it's time for a new plan?
SL who is the dreamer in full aggressive rebuild timeline mode, while I'm realist!

Next year (2019) is too quick for the playoffs unless the team acquires a Parayko or something crazy like that, but if the team goes along with the steady drafting and development I'd say 2020/2021 onwards will be when the new Canucks core should be in full swing for many years.
So, the full 7 years you referred to earlier in this thread.

Two questions, then:

Does that seem to you like a genius-level performance?

and

If the Canucks are not contenders by 2020/2021, does that indicate to you that they need someone else to manage the re-build?
RoyalDude wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:35 am
Stick to the plan, always. The plan is always in motion. The relentless pursuit!
You have set the highest standard for Benning's ultimate performance, so I think it's reasonable for you to ask for the longest amount of time to get there. Still, hockey masterpieces are time-sensitive projects, in that the components have very limited lifespans. If Benning's Masterpiece is not completed before Horvat retires (from professional hockey, as a player), would it then be fair to say that Benning has failed?

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Post by SKYO » Thu May 17, 2018 1:44 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:32 pm


Didn't you agree the other day that the playoffs are a possibility next season? :?
Not impossible but difficult, the great unknown is how the team responds to not having the Sedins there, notably not taking the lions share of all the offensive zone minutes and their impeccable powerplay skills etc (an underrated storyline).

But imesho the young guns will have either two showcases:

- high flying from the start of the season then simmer
OR
- the young guns will start slow but start to gain confidence as time goes on to become the new leaders of the future.
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Post by Ronning's Ghost » Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:32 pm

When pressed by Cliffy about what will happen by 2019 I said make the playoffs.
And "look good".

I never got a concrete explanation of what that would entail, and you were pretty clearly getting tired of my asking ("You dogs are not going to get a more quantified prediction than this on a fucking Canucks message board."), but if at any time before those playoffs start you feel inspired to elaborate, I am confident in predicting that I will not be the only person on this board who will be interested.

Can we all agree that the Canucks' playoff performance in 2015 would not qualify ?

I would like to clarify that my point here has never been to try to get anyone to predict the future, but to establish a timeline for the rebuild, and milestones against which to assess its success, all as a means to evaluate whether its manager was doing a good (or even genius-level) job.

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Post by SKYO » Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:40 pm
So, the full 7 years you referred to earlier in this thread.

Two questions, then:

Does that seem to you like a genius-level performance?

and

If the Canucks are not contenders by 2020/2021, does that indicate to you that they need someone else to manage the re-build?
7 years seems to be a good healthy amount of time to transition from your old core of players to a new set of core players to lead your team. Not to mention players drafted usually take 3-4 years on average it appears to become comfortable in the NHL to reach their full potential.

If the Canucks are not in the playoffs by 2021 then yes, need new management, I'm guessing that's why JB got the 3 years extension to see how the team develops these next crucial years in the franchise to evolve back into contender status....that defense is big weakness that needs to be addressed, along with some sandpaper up front to help protect those young guns.
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Post by Strangelove » Thu May 17, 2018 2:22 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:32 pm
When pressed by Cliffy about what will happen by 2019 I said make the playoffs.
And "look good".
Yes. :D

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 pm
I never got a concrete explanation of what that would entail, and you were pretty clearly getting tired of my asking ("You dogs are not going to get a more quantified prediction than this on a fucking Canucks message board.")
Well a couple of people were asking silly things like "how many points will Canucks have" and "how many goals will be scored".

Silly because we all know approximately how many points are needed, and the number of goals is irrelevant.

And some went full retard in asking exactly which players will be stars...

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 pm
Can we all agree that the Canucks' playoff performance in 2015 would not qualify ?
I believe I started saying "Try to focus on 3-4 years from now" in November/December 2015 when Canucks were struggling.

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 2:01 pm
I would like to clarify that my point here has never been to try to get anyone to predict the future, but to establish a timeline for the rebuild, and milestones against which to assess its success, all as a means to evaluate whether its manager was doing a good (or even genius-level) job.
I chose a minimum timeline that a genius would need to see his group of draft picks develop into impact players

... as well as assemble a strong supporting group.

(I factored in standard Canuckluck in regards to the draft lottery)

And as I've said, a post-Sedin timeline.

If they make the playoffs next season is he a superior GM in your mind Cliffy?
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Post by ESQ » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:40 pm

So, the full 7 years you referred to earlier in this thread.

Two questions, then:

Does that seem to you like a genius-level performance?

and

If the Canucks are not contenders by 2020/2021, does that indicate to you that they need someone else to manage the re-build?
The Doc's prediction has been a 5 to 6-year rebuild. Next year is year-5 of the Benning Regime. And if Benning pulls it off and gets the Canucks back in the playoffs, he is a genius.

Every other oft-cited successful tear-it-down rebuild, or in the Jets case, from-the-ground-up build, took more like 10 years and came with a smattering of lotto luck to get multiple top-3 picks. The exception being the Kings, who spent 8 years out of the playoffs and only got one top-3 pick (Doughty).

Benning starting in 2014/15 by moving out 1/4 of the roster. He's maintained this pace, and now there is but one 1 player left from the Gillis-era NHL roster.

A 5-6 year rebuild, without a single lottery pick and a dreadful prospect pool at the outset, would be truly remarkable.

Fun fact - every team in the final 4 has a first overall draft pick on their team in a crucial role.

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