Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Does anybody still like Sutter? He's a shutdown centre who is average at that role, is one of the worst passers on the team and probably in the league, doesn't play physical at all, 25-35 points average in a season (career high is 34, on pace for less than 30 this year if he played all 82 games).

I will give him credit for a decent shot and being a decent goal scorer.

He's an average NHL player who is paid like a second liner, on a very long term contract that he hasn't played up to at all. Aside from Eriksson and perhaps the upcoming Guddy contract his is the worst on the team. Money isn't a big deal to this team right now given how terrible they are, but if the young guys play up to their potential over the next few years this one could hurt.

Well with Horvat, Pettersson and Gaudette probably taking over the next couple years, Sutter is the stable vet center here, especially when the Sedins decide to retire this year or next.

Sutter will be handy to have as the Canucks transition to their new and improved young center core for the next decade+
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Diehard1 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:50 pm

SKYO wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Does anybody still like Sutter? He's a shutdown centre who is average at that role, is one of the worst passers on the team and probably in the league, doesn't play physical at all, 25-35 points average in a season (career high is 34, on pace for less than 30 this year if he played all 82 games).

I will give him credit for a decent shot and being a decent goal scorer.

He's an average NHL player who is paid like a second liner, on a very long term contract that he hasn't played up to at all. Aside from Eriksson and perhaps the upcoming Guddy contract his is the worst on the team. Money isn't a big deal to this team right now given how terrible they are, but if the young guys play up to their potential over the next few years this one could hurt.

Well with Horvat, Pettersson and Gaudette probably taking over the next couple years, Sutter is the stable vet center here, especially when the Sedins decide to retire this year or next.

Sutter will be handy to have as the Canucks transition to their new and improved young center core for the next decade+
Stable vet I'm fine with - stable vet who will be a massively overpaid 4th liner with Horvat, Pettersson and Gaudette as the top 3 centres I'm not. Granted that means Pettersson and Gaudette have to be better than Sutter is in a couple of years, but given Sutter's play the last couple of years the bar isn't that high. Unfortunately Travis Green was the same player as Sutter in his career, though grittier for sure, so he'll keep playing Sutter as many minutes as he can.

I'm fine with Sutter for the next 1-2 years, maybe 3, but after that he'll be nothing but a drain on the cap.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by SKYO » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:04 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:50 pm

I'm fine with Sutter for the next 1-2 years, maybe 3, but after that he'll be nothing but a drain on the cap.
Sutter only has 3 years left on his contract, so when Pettersson signs his 3 year ELC this summer, Sutter's contract will expire when Pettersson's 2nd contract starts in the year 2021, so there is no worries about his contract. Also in that time Eriksson's contract moves into a modified NTC where he submits a 15 team no trade list, plus his salary is only $4m then w/cap hit $6m, so he'd be good for a team trying to reach cap floor while their owner doesn't have to pay as much.

Also in this time frame, Gagner, MDZ, Edler, Markstrom's contracts all will be done, massive cap space awaits by the time Pettersson et al need their 2nd contracts.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Strangelove » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:35 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Does anybody still like Sutter?
ME. I fucking love the guy... and so has every coach he's ever had.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
He's a shutdown centre who is average at that role
Actually he's excellent in that role.

And great in the dot, great penalty killer...

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
, is one of the worst passers on the team
True, he has never been a very good play-maker/passer.

Although I've noticed he's been working on that area this season

... but yeah, he'll never be great at dat dere.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
and probably in the league
Holy Hyperbole Batman!

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
, doesn't play physical at all
Doesn't initiate much, but doesn't exactly shy away from physical contact either...

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
, 25-35 points average in a season.
I believe Blob and I have determined he has averaged 33 points per 82 games/career.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
I will give him credit for a decent shot and being a decent goal scorer.
Agreed.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
He's an average NHL player who is paid like a second liner
Throughout his career (other than his rookie year) he has always been top 6 in min-per-gm.

That's on 3 different teams in 9 different seasons... and 6 different coaches.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
, on a very long term contract that he hasn't played up to at all.
He was 26 years old when he signed this 5 year contract (all UFA years).

That's not excessively long by any stretch of the imagination (prime years).

UFA years cost more than non-UFA... and he signed on for a rebuild.

All things considered, I say he has played up to the contract given.

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Aside from Eriksson and perhaps the upcoming Guddy contract his is the worst on the team.
Are you comparing UFA-year contracts to non-UFA contracts?

Sutter's contract is not worth complaining about...

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Money isn't a big deal to this team right now given how terrible they are, but if the young guys play up to their potential over the next few years this one could hurt.
I can't imagine any scenario where this contract would "hurt" moving forward.

Paint me a picture Diehard...

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:50 pm
I'm fine with Sutter for the next 1-2 years, maybe 3, but after that he'll be nothing but a drain on the cap.
Well if you're fine with Sutter's contract for 3 years... what the hell are you complaining about! :lol:
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:44 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:50 pm
SKYO wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 pm
Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
Does anybody still like Sutter? He's a shutdown centre who is average at that role, is one of the worst passers on the team and probably in the league, doesn't play physical at all, 25-35 points average in a season (career high is 34, on pace for less than 30 this year if he played all 82 games).

I will give him credit for a decent shot and being a decent goal scorer.

He's an average NHL player who is paid like a second liner, on a very long term contract that he hasn't played up to at all. Aside from Eriksson and perhaps the upcoming Guddy contract his is the worst on the team. Money isn't a big deal to this team right now given how terrible they are, but if the young guys play up to their potential over the next few years this one could hurt.

Well with Horvat, Pettersson and Gaudette probably taking over the next couple years, Sutter is the stable vet center here, especially when the Sedins decide to retire this year or next.

Sutter will be handy to have as the Canucks transition to their new and improved young center core for the next decade+
Stable vet I'm fine with - stable vet who will be a massively overpaid 4th liner with Horvat, Pettersson and Gaudette as the top 3 centres I'm not. Granted that means Pettersson and Gaudette have to be better than Sutter is in a couple of years, but given Sutter's play the last couple of years the bar isn't that high. Unfortunately Travis Green was the same player as Sutter in his career, though grittier for sure, so he'll keep playing Sutter as many minutes as he can.

I'm fine with Sutter for the next 1-2 years, maybe 3, but after that he'll be nothing but a drain on the cap.
After this season, Sutter has 3 years left on his contract. After next season, Sutter's NTC turns into a Modified Contract for the remaining two years (he has to name 15 teams he will accept a trade to. Sutter will be 32 years of age when this contract ends. It's not a bad contract FFS! You know whats a bad contract? Backlund at a $1 million more than Sutter for 6 seasons after this season. He will be 35 when his contract ends.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:03 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:33 pm
He's an average NHL player who is paid like a second liner, on a very long term contract that he hasn't played up to at all. Aside from Eriksson and perhaps the upcoming Guddy contract his is the worst on the team. Money isn't a big deal to this team right now given how terrible they are, but if the young guys play up to their potential over the next few years this one could hurt.
YEP.

If his name wasn't Sutter he'd be Brad Richardson.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:35 pm
Actually he's excellent in that role.

And great in the dot, great penalty killer...
Actually he's below 50% in the dot over his career. The past 4 seasons he has been better, however he still doesn't crack the top 50 in FO% over the past 4 years among centermen who have attempted at least 1000 draws per season.

So let's not get carried away with the hyperbole there Doc. :P

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Strangelove » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:35 pm
Actually he's excellent in that role.

And great in the dot, great penalty killer...
Actually he's below 50% in the dot over his career. The past 4 seasons he has been better, however he still doesn't crack the top 50 in FO% over the past 4 years among centermen who have attempted at least 1000 draws per season.

So let's not get carried away with the hyperbole there Doc. :P
Are you filling in for Blob while he's in rehab? :P

Not sure what kind of game you're playing here statboy.

Here are Sutter's faceoff numbers over the past 2 seasons (he was injured most of the season before

2016-17 - 54.3%
2017-18 - 52.4%

(didn't go back further because he was injured most of 2015-16)

A sum result over those 2 seasons of 53.7% on 2124 faceoffs.

I take it back, he's not "great in the dot"

... he's "exceptional in the dot"!!!

Following are the only players in the league who have taken that many faceoffs with as good as or better results:

Vermette, O'Reilly, Bergeron, Jordan Staal, Giroux, Kesler, Toews, Stastny, Johansen, Bozak, Koivu, Zajac.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:05 pm

Nuckles is just a sad angry little man due to the Canucks shell shellacking one of his two (Oilers) favourite teams - the Bruins. Rebuilders of the Century according to Nuckle Sandwich. Remember these 3 names - Debrusk, Zboril and Senyshyn. And then remember these 3 names - Barzal, Connor and Boeser.
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:36 pm
Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:35 pm
Actually he's excellent in that role.

And great in the dot, great penalty killer...
Actually he's below 50% in the dot over his career. The past 4 seasons he has been better, however he still doesn't crack the top 50 in FO% over the past 4 years among centermen who have attempted at least 1000 draws per season.

So let's not get carried away with the hyperbole there Doc. :P
Are you filling in for Blob while he's in rehab? :P

Not sure what kind of game you're playing here statboy.

Here are Sutter's faceoff numbers over the past 3 seasons:

2015-16 - 52.5%
2016-17 - 54.3%
2017-18 - 52.4%

A sum result over those 3 seasons of 53.5% on 2402 faceoffs.

I take it back, he's not "great in the dot"

... he's "exceptional in the dot"!!

It doesn't get much better than that...
Ummmm..... Firstly you said.....
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:35 pm
Actually he's excellent in that role.

And great in the dot, great penalty killer...
So then I went and looked up the true definition of the word "great".....

great
ɡrāt/Submit
adjective
1.
of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.
"the article was of great interest"
synonyms: considerable, substantial, significant, appreciable, special, serious; More
2.
of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above the normal or average.
"the great Italian conductor"
synonyms: prominent, eminent, important, distinguished, illustrious, celebrated, honored, acclaimed, admired, esteemed, revered, renowned, notable, famous, famed, well known;


and realized that it's overstating things so then I said.....
Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
Actually he's below 50% in the dot over his career.
But then I also acknowledged.....
Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
The past 4 seasons he has been better...
And then went on to point out.....
Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:21 pm
however he still doesn't crack the top 50 in FO% over the past 4 years among centermen who have attempted at least 1000 draws per season.
And now you are calling him.....
Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:36 pm
I take it back, he's not "great in the dot"

... he's "exceptional in the dot"!!

It doesn't get much better than that...
And I'm like..... :eh:

ex·cep·tion·al
ˌikˈsepSH(ə)n(ə)l/Submit
adjective
adjective: exceptional
unusual; not typical.
"crimes of exceptional callousness and cruelty"
synonyms: unusual, uncommon, abnormal, atypical, extraordinary, out of the ordinary, rare, unprecedented, unexpected, surprising; More
antonyms: normal, usual
unusually good; outstanding.
"a pepper offering exceptional flavor and juiciness"
synonyms: outstanding, extraordinary, remarkable, special, excellent, phenomenal, prodigious;


WTF? :shock:

But because I know you are a renowned historian when it comes to finding things out on these here interwebs I figured, ya know, the good doctor rarely goes off half cocked so I should maybe do a bit more homework and give him the benefit of the doubt, after all, the player in question (Sutter) has been injured a helluvalot since landing in Vancouver, and setting the faceoff bar as high as 1000 was being unfair since we are, appropriately I might add, talking about FO percentage.

So I refined it. I dumped it to 500 faceoff attempts and included all forwards, not just centermen.

Going back to 2014/15, Sutter cracks the top 100 a single time in terms of FO%.....at 96, and that was last season. He doesn't even factor again until 140 on the list, that's this season. Then again at 236.

I'm not saying he sucks at faceoffs. Just that the words "great" and "exceptional" are somewhat overstating things. I mean, there are wingers in that list who have done better.

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Post by Strangelove » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:18 pm

Read my post, I edited it before you posted that.

Brandon Sutter is exceptional in the dot!!

Top 13 in the league over the past 2 seasons...

I couldn't care less about YOU posting his career numbers.

And not going to comment on the stats-manipulation game you're playing :roll: because my previous post says it all.
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Post by BladesofSteel » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:23 pm

Meanwhile,

Looks like Philly won't be pitchin an offer to Benning for one of his goalies, as they just acquired Mrazek for a conditional 4th this year and a conditional 3rd in '19.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Island Nucklehead » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:29 pm

Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 pm
I'm not saying he sucks at faceoffs. Just that the words "great" and "exceptional" are somewhat overstating things. I mean, there are wingers in that list who have done better.
Image

RoyalDude wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:05 pm
Nuckles is just a sad angry little man due to the Canucks shell shellacking one of his two (Oilers) favourite teams - the Bruins. Rebuilders of the Century according to Nuckle Sandwich. Remember these 3 names - Debrusk, Zboril and Senyshyn. And then remember these 3 names - Barzal, Connor and Boeser.
*Checks standings, notes the Bruins sit 3rd in the League and the Canucks are 27th*

Do you think the Bruins even remember that game?

You're the kind of muppet ownership counts on.

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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Strangelove » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:39 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:29 pm
Meds wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 pm
I'm not saying he sucks at faceoffs. Just that the words "great" and "exceptional" are somewhat overstating things. I mean, there are wingers in that list who have done better.
Clap.gif
Your agenda continues to make a fool of you.

You accuse The Dude of trolling for much less.

It's very obvious Mr Sutter has been nothing less than exceptional over the past 2 seasons in the dot.

I never claimed his career numbers were exceptional, Meds has his apples mixed with his orangutans again.

Top 13 in the NHL, scroll up and read it this time, or continue to make an ass of yourself, your choice...
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Re: Trade rumours & armchair pipe dreams 17-18 Sponsored by SKYO

Post by Meds » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:55 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:18 pm
Read my post, I edited it before you posted that.

Brandon Sutter is exceptional in the dot!!

Top 13 in the league over the past 2 seasons...

I couldn't care less about YOU posting his career numbers.
Image

You can't edit something while I'm posting and expect it to stand. :lol:

Image

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