So let's assume they re-sign Gudbranson. Now Guddy, Tanev, Stecher on the right side long term. Biega is the extra, short-term only.
Left side is Edler (not moving, even if we want him to as he's made that clear), MDZ. Juolevi coming next year and will play some NHL games even if he's in the AHL for a while first. Hutton the extra. Pouliot plays both sides.
So now we've got the worst d corps in the NHL locked up for another year at least, perhaps longer if they re-sign Edler, Stecher (almost surely will be done this summer), Pouliot (who knows). They can't score, and they are challenged at defending.
Where does the improvement come from? I will be shocked if they trade Tanev, so how does this D get better? It's a tire fire at the moment, no clue why you would want to keep this group together.
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm
by SKYO
Edler-Guddy
MDZ-Stecher
Juolevi-Pouliot
Tanev and Hutton traded.
Tanev the preferred targets are Liljegren and Cal Foote types, long term D projects that fall in line with developing with Pettersson, Gaudette and Demko.
Plus ideally we draft another key dman in 2018 draft.
Ultimately we are not expected to contend the next 2-3 years, so this is the perfect time to acquire and develop multiple young D to coincide with the young guns developing up front.
Edler buys another year for the 19 year old OJ to develop in sheltered minutes, I'd even re-sign Edler to $3M per for a couple years to be the depth vet experienced guy down the road on the 3rd pairing, much to the ignominy of many here ha.
Tanev the preferred targets are Liljegren and Cal Foote types, long term D projects that fall in line with developing with Pettersson, Gaudette and Demko.
Plus ideally we draft another key dman in 2018 draft.
Ultimately we are not expected to contend the next 2-3 years, so this is the perfect time to acquire and develop multiple young D to coincide with the young guns developing up front.
Edler buys another year for the 19 year old OJ to develop in sheltered minutes, I'd even re-sign Edler to $3M per for a couple years to be the depth vet experienced guy down the road on the 3rd pairing, much to the ignominy of many here ha.
Agreed - Tanev should be traded, can't stay healthy but has lots of value given his contract and solid play when in the lineup. Not a lot of reason to keep him around if you re-sign Gudbranson. Hutton I like, just don't think the coach is going to play him. He's losing value sitting in the press box so might as well get something for him.
I think they will focus on D in the draft and trades for the foreseeable future. The forwards look solid assuming a few of the prospects work out, so time to figure out the D.
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm
by Strangelove
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:28 pm
So let's assume they re-sign Gudbranson. Now Guddy, Tanev, Stecher on the right side long term. Biega is the extra, short-term only.
Left side is Edler (not moving, even if we want him to as he's made that clear), MDZ. Juolevi coming next year and will play some NHL games even if he's in the AHL for a while first. Hutton the extra. Pouliot plays both sides.
So now we've got the worst d corps in the NHL locked up for another year at least, perhaps longer if they re-sign Edler, Stecher (almost surely will be done this summer), Pouliot (who knows). They can't score, and they are challenged at defending.
Where does the improvement come from? I will be shocked if they trade Tanev, so how does this D get better? It's a tire fire at the moment, no clue why you would want to keep this group together.
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
Edler + Tanev are solid.
"how does this D get better?"
- This dee group gets better if/when some of the young guys take the next step.
Stecher is 23, Hutton is 24, Pouliot is 24
.... even The Guds might improve, 26 and has been either injured or recovering from injury since he got here.
Young guys in the system could step up (Juolevi is not the only one).
Tryamkin will be back.
And "this D gets better" with more luck in the Injury Department.
If worse comes to worst we trade forwards for defensemen.
Or sign a UFA or two at some point, try to relax good buddy!
It's called a rebuild...
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:27 pm
by Ronning's Ghost
SKYO wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm
Ultimately we are not expected to contend the next 2-3 years
This depends who's doing the forecasting. I'm a little disappointed Doc didn't correct you.
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
OK, how about "D corps on the team with the 5th worst winning percentage and the 7th most goals allowed" ?
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm Tryamkin will be back.
Do you have some inside information on this, or just a strong intuition ?
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
OK, how about "D corps on the team with the 5th worst winning percentage and the 7th most goals allowed" ?
How 'bout we place some of that blame on the goaltenders and injuries to top dmen.
How much of the blame belongs to the ‘tenders, how much to the defence, and how much to the forwards not supporting, I would hesitate to guess. The concept of ‘quality of the D corps’, though, encompasses both durability and depth, so frequency and duration of injury do not affect the assessment.
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:15 pm
Can you handle a rebuild Cliffy?
Better than almost anyone on this board. I probably have the least emotional investment in the Canucks' success of any poster here. That still doesn’t mean I wouldn’t rather see the rebuild done successfully than otherwise, though.
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pmTryamkin will be back.
Do you have some inside information on this, or just a strong intuition ?
Neither.
Logic dictates...
I expect you can make a strong argument, but surely by now it will not come as a surprise to you to learn that not everyone allows all of their life’s decisions to be governed by logic. Imagine, for example, being a fan of a team in a professional sports league that has demonstrated that its decisions are driven by revenue, and has calculated that your team winning the championship is not the most profitable outcome.
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
OK, how about "D corps on the team with the 5th worst winning percentage and the 7th most goals allowed" ?
How 'bout we place some of that blame on the goaltenders and injuries to top dmen.
How 'bout we recalculate to something like say "middle of the pack D corps among rebuilding teams"
How much of the blame belongs to the ‘tenders, how much to the defence, and how much to the forwards not supporting, I would hesitate to guess. The concept of ‘quality of the D corps’, though, encompasses both durability and depth, so frequency and duration of injury do not affect the assessment.
Wrong.
This is a rebuilding team.
Rebuilding teams almost never have the depth to cover for injuries to top dmen.
I've been saying that for a year now.
Recently GMJB... or was it Linden... echoed the same thought.
Don't worry Cliffy, I'm going to get you through this rebuild if it kills me brother...
Strangelove wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:02 pm
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
OK, how about "D corps on the team with the 5th worst winning percentage and the 7th most goals allowed" ?
How 'bout we place some of that blame on the goaltenders and injuries to top dmen.
How 'bout we recalculate to something like say "middle of the pack D corps among rebuilding teams"
How much of the blame belongs to the ‘tenders, how much to the defence, and how much to the forwards not supporting, I would hesitate to guess. The concept of ‘quality of the D corps’, though, encompasses both durability and depth, so frequency and duration of injury do not affect the assessment.
Wrong.
This is a rebuilding team.
Rebuilding teams almost never have the depth to cover for injuries to top dmen.
I've been saying that for a year now.
Recently GMJB... or was it Linden... echoed the same thought.
Don't worry Cliffy, I'm going to get you through this rebuild brother...
Of course rebuilding teams almost never have the depth to cover for injuries to top dmen. All that's saying is that rebuilding teams don't usually have good defensive corps.
RD provides a regular rundown on how well the forward draft picks (and one goaltender) in the Canucks pipeline are doing. We don't hear as much about the defensive prospects. I note in this context that the Oilers have a quite a few top-level forwards already playing in the NHL, yet remain an unsuccessful team.
But we'll see how it goes. 2019, or 2020 at the latest, right ?
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:02 pm
by Chef Boi RD
Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:27 pm
Do you have some inside information on this, or just a strong intuition ?
I would probably chalk it up as - 'Glass Half Full' there Cliffy Chicken Little
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:28 pm
So let's assume they re-sign Gudbranson. Now Guddy, Tanev, Stecher on the right side long term. Biega is the extra, short-term only.
Left side is Edler (not moving, even if we want him to as he's made that clear), MDZ. Juolevi coming next year and will play some NHL games even if he's in the AHL for a while first. Hutton the extra. Pouliot plays both sides.
So now we've got the worst d corps in the NHL locked up for another year at least, perhaps longer if they re-sign Edler, Stecher (almost surely will be done this summer), Pouliot (who knows). They can't score, and they are challenged at defending.
Where does the improvement come from? I will be shocked if they trade Tanev, so how does this D get better? It's a tire fire at the moment, no clue why you would want to keep this group together.
"worst d corps in the NHL" - Holy Hyperbole Batman!
Edler + Tanev are solid.
"how does this D get better?"
- This dee group gets better if/when some of the young guys take the next step.
Stecher is 23, Hutton is 24, Pouliot is 24
.... even The Guds might improve, 26 and has been either injured or recovering from injury since he got here.
Young guys in the system could step up (Juolevi is not the only one).
Tryamkin will be back.
And "this D gets better" with more luck in the Injury Department.
If worse comes to worst we trade forwards for defensemen.
Or sign a UFA or two at some point, try to relax good buddy!
It's called a rebuild...
Which team has a worse D corps? Second last in points in the NHL overall in the past 3 years - yes even with Colorado and their historically bad season last year we have fewer points over the past 3 seasons. Only Arizona is worse. Second lowest scoring D in the league this year, even with Edler on a run lately. I would take Arizona (OEL, Goligoski, Hjalmarsson, Chychrun, Demers) over ours in a second. Maybe Buffalo is close to us, though I like Ristolainen much more than any of our D. The Isles goalies can’t stop a beach ball but they have Leddy, Boychuk, De Haan, Pulock on the back end. Even the Oilers might look better with Nurse, Larsson, Sekera (if he wasn’t healthy). They don’t have anything coming either so are in a bad spot like the Nucks moving forward, though they have some good youth on the backend already.
Im not sure a 26 year old in his 7th season is still improving. Pretty darn rare but perhaps it could happen. 24 year old Hutton isn’t playing so not sure how he’s getting better. Pouliot plays one game like a house on fire and the next like an ECHL player - at 24 you’d hope he wouldn’t still be making the same mistakes over and over. Stecher I like, he’s a solid player but likely has a top end of a #4/5 guy. Need more than just him. Juolevi I figure has a ceiling of a #2 guy which is great, but again need more than just him.
As for injuries - Tanev is 28 and in his 5th full NHL season. He’s played 70 games once, in the 60’s twice, 53 last year and is on pace for about the same this year. After 5 seasons it’s not a fluke, it’s a trend. I like his play but he’s losing value getting injured, and he’s getting closer to FA when they will get nothing for him. Edler always misses games too, he’s played one full season in his 10 year career. Gudbranson had a wrist issue that seems to be fixed now. Stecher missed a few games as well. The rest have been relatively healthy so not sure this excuse holds water, regardless of Linden whining about it. This team is not even in the top 5 in man games lost to injury this season so other teams are affected by injuries too. The D they’ve assembled is simply bad and needs major changes.
Lastly, regarding the rebuild - I have been all in for 3 seasons on a rebuild. Wish somebody would tell Linden and Benning so they would stop trading picks (11 out, 9 in since they’ve been here), trading for/signing middle aged vets (Sutter, Guddy, Gagner, MDZ, etc) and let the kids play. It’s not like they are winning, being ‘competitive’ or anything even close to it in Benning’s time so it can’t get much worse. The forwards look decent for the future but time to fix the backend.
Hopefully they continue what they started last deadline this week as well - I have my doubts given last year’s free agent craziness but we will see.
Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:27 pm
Do you have some inside information on this, or just a strong intuition ?
I would probably chalk it up as - 'Glass Half Full' there Cliffy Chicken Little
AKA Wishful Thinking.
Or common sense anticipation
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:13 am
by Chef Boi RD
Diehard, the Avalanche fixed their defence in one draft - Makar and Timins, and the Duschene trade - Girard. And don't forget the O'Reilly trade, Zadarov is playing good hockey finally. Anyhow, Benning can do a lot for this team's D with a top 10 pick in this draft and a high 2nd round pick. Unlike Cliffy and Nuckles, I'm confident Tryamkin will return, he's too good not to be in the NHL.
Re: Canucks News and Notes 2017-2018
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:41 am
by SKYO
Pretty affordable and low risk term for Gudbranson - 3 years - $4M per.
Bob McKenzie:
Gudbranson will get $4.4M next season, $4.6M the season after that and $3M in the third and final year of the deal, for an AAV of $4M.
