Star Power and SC Champions

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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Mondi wrote:The potential we have is a long list of B/B+/A- prospects. We still need our Matthews.


Interesting. Maybe, maybe not. One superstar, or one great line, can get shut down. Maybe in a salary cap league, the structure to aim for is a first line that is the 20th best in the league, but defensively reliable, supported by second and third lines that are maybe the 34th and 40th best lines in the league. That is to say, rather than three 7 million dollar forwards, three 4 million dollar forwards, three 3 million dollar forwards, and some roster-fillers, a team is better off with three 5 million dollar forwards, three 4.5 million dollar forwards, three 3.5 million dollar forwards, and a proportionately upgraded fourth line.

...or maybe you're better off with 4 defencemen who are top-two on most teams, and six who are top-four on most teams. Even if you're trying to build a durable team, injuries are all but certain.


Nashville sweeping aside the blackhawks and taking the superstar Pens to 6 games even without RyJo proves having a deep and talented defense is a new trend.

Lets take a look at their top 4.

6'1 200lbs LS Roman Josi:

Assets: Has great puck-moving skills, outstanding skating ability and a very low panic threshold. Also boasts decent size for the NHL game. Can produce big numbers at all levels and log huge amounts of ice time.

Flaws:Can be a little too loose in his defensive play from time to time, so he could stand to tighten things up a little bit more so as to become even more consistent. Injuries could be a problem, too.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/6755


6'0 210lbs RS PK Subban:

Assets:Has outstanding skating ability and excels at rushing up ice with the puck. Can quarterback a power play and also initiate a lot of contact. Displays a flair for the dramatic. Shoots the puck with aplomb and also gets under opponents' skin. Is adept at playing a shutdown role.

Flaws:Needs to simplify his game, since he has a tendency to run around in his own end from time to time. Also tries to do too much with the puck. On-ice antics may at times annoy his own teammates and the coaching staff. Could stand to become a bit more disciplined on the ice.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/6232


5'10 180lbs RS Ryan Ellis:

Assets:Has very good offensive instincts and great mobility. Also owns the natural ability to move the puck quickly out of danger. Owns a powerful point shot. Has developed into an excellent defender, as well.

Flaws:Can make a few too many mistakes with the puck when he is a bit too overconfident, though he has improved a lot in that area. Lacks ideal size for the blueline position in the NHL (5-10, 180 pounds).
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/player/7022


6'4 215lbs LS Mattias Ekholm:

Assets: Has a huge frame (6-4, 215 pounds), puck-moving ability and a big shot from the point. Usually keeps his game very simple and minimizes his mistakes. Owns all-round acumen.

Flaws:Does not have a lot of grit or toughness, so he does not always take full advantage of his big frame at the NHL level. Also, he does not shoot the puck nearly enough.


Josie and Ellis aren't all that big for dmen, but obviously got high caliber talent.


Last season those 4 scored 150 points combined. And 50 frickin' points in the playoffs combined in 22 games.

Another reason to try to keep QB's 6'2 207lbs LS Ben Hutton and 5'10 190lbs RS Troy Stecher long term over all the rest of the dmen here currently.

Plus it's great to have MDZ for scoring depth, he's scored a ton before in the league, so hopefully he can help Hutton and Stecher out with some pointers on taking their game to the next level.

In a couple years I'd like to see our top 4 be
Juolevi, Stecher, Hutton and (Guds or/Tanev).
Tryamkin is the wildcard in 2-3 years.
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:17 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:Maybe you need that Norris-calibre stud defenceman SKYO has always wanted, or maybe you're better off with 4 defencemen who are top-two on most teams, and six who are top-four on most teams. Even if you're trying to build a durable team, injuries are all but certain. As Cornuck said, you need depth. Superstars are actually an impediment to depth.


When was the last team to win a Stanley cup without a superstar? Carolina? Ward was certainly playing like one...

I'd say the LA Kings might be close to that, Kopitar and Doughty are their all-star players, I wouldn't say they are superstars. Kopitar is teetering on that, but his highest point total was 81 points way back in 2010, otherwise he's good for a solid 70 points per year and is trending downward.

Compared to Crosby getting over 100 points a lot, Malkin over 100 points a few times, Patrick Kane got over 100 points once, couple times in the 80s and 70 point range.

McDavid in his 2nd year already scored 100 points ffs. aha :|

Kings were built on size and Sutter's hard farming work style, all their star players reached prime at the same time, wicked depth up front and on defense with a couple Hasek like performances by Quick who got in everyone's mind during their Cup wins.

So if the Canucks can vastly improve their scoring on defense with a solid top 4, having scoring depth in their top 9 with a superb one/two punch of Bo/Elias, a rugged but effective 4th line plus Demko stealing the #1 spot in a couple years, the possibilities are endless for this squad. 8-)

Bruins another team without a scoring superstar, but like the Kings were a solid built team with talent all throughout their lineup with their goalie going on fire.
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:12 pm

SKYO wrote:So if the Canucks can vastly improve their scoring on defense with a solid top 4, having scoring depth in their top 9 with a superb one/two punch of Bo/Elias, a rugged but effective 4th line plus Demko stealing the #1 spot in a couple years, the possibilities are endless for this squad. 8-)


Just curious, who do u see as our future top 4 D-men and who will make up the rugged 4th line?
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:28 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
SKYO wrote:So if the Canucks can vastly improve their scoring on defense with a solid top 4, having scoring depth in their top 9 with a superb one/two punch of Bo/Elias, a rugged but effective 4th line plus Demko stealing the #1 spot in a couple years, the possibilities are endless for this squad. 8-)


Just curious, who do u see as our future top 4 D-men and who will make up the rugged 4th line?


Well my hope! is in 2-3 years:

JUOLEVI - STECHER
HUTTON - GUDBRANSON/TANEV/TRYAMKIN

I can see Juo, Hutton and Stecher as 30+ point guys in time,

Juolevi taking the hard minutes when he's around 23 years old+ he's currently 19, so like most Euro dmen it's going to take a few years to see him fully develop.

Be interesting to see how and if Gudbranson can mesh well into the group - stay relatively healthy and Green/Baumer know how use him effectively.

But for now the pairings should be;
Edler - Stecher (the wily ol' vet with the youngster)
Hutton - Tanev (this combo should be dynamite)
MDZ - Guds (depth QB w/ the tough/asshole dman)
Wiercoch/Biega/Holm.

Future rugged 4th line:

A few of these guys:

Gadjovich - Lind - MacEwen - Gaunce - Matt Brassard
Brett McKenzie, William Lockwood.

Gadjovich and Lind have the potential to move up into the top 9 however.
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:59 am

SKYO wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:Maybe you need that Norris-calibre stud defenceman SKYO has always wanted, or maybe you're better off with 4 defencemen who are top-two on most teams, and six who are top-four on most teams. Even if you're trying to build a durable team, injuries are all but certain. As Cornuck said, you need depth. Superstars are actually an impediment to depth.


When was the last team to win a Stanley cup without a superstar? Carolina? Ward was certainly playing like one...


I'd say the LA Kings might be close to that, Kopitar and Doughty are their all-star players, I wouldn't say they are superstars. Kopitar is teetering on that, but his highest point total was 81 points way back in 2010, otherwise he's good for a solid 70 points per year and is trending downward.

Bruins another team without a scoring superstar, but like the Kings were a solid built team with talent all throughout their lineup with their goalie going on fire.


Systems matter.

And while you can debate where the cutoff is for "super" vs. "regular" star. What's clear is that the Canucks don't even have any of either.

Kopitar-Doughty-Quick.
Bergeron-Chara-Thomas.

When the Canucks have that kind of setup, we'll be just fine.
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby Puck » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:13 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:Kopitar-Doughty-Quick.
Bergeron-Chara-Thomas.

When the Canucks have that kind of setup, we'll be just fine.


One could argue that Bo is trending towards Kopitar-like ability. Demko also appears on track, but it's a stretch to think the Canucks have anyone that will match Doughty or Chara, as it seems like an unreasonably optimistic projection for Juolevi.
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Re: Star Power and SC Champions

Postby micky107 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:13 am

Just a hunch, haven't heard anything concrete but Tryamkin could be back sooner than later.
Fingers crossed.
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