2017/18 Pacific Division

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby herb » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:22 am

I'm confused as to why you all are comparing the 2011 team, which was unarguably one of the best teams in the league, with the clearly rebuilding 2017 team. It's like comparing a completed house renovation with a house that has been torn down to the studs, has no windows and is missing its roof.
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby micky107 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:30 am

herb wrote:I'm confused as to why you all are comparing the 2011 team, which was unarguably one of the best teams in the league, with the clearly rebuilding 2017 team. It's like comparing a completed house renovation with a house that has been torn down to the studs, has no windows and is missing its roof.


Well hopefully by next year they get that drainage problem around the property fixed so more of that stagnant
water can drain away. :mrgreen:

Sorry! Even for me that was a little mean. :oops:
"evolution"
User avatar
micky107
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2930
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:27 am

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby ESQ » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:36 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:So the Canucks should employ a small, soft group of players that don't hit, don't forecheck , don't stand up for themselves or each other, turn the other cheek , turtle, dive and generally bore the home crowd to tears ? Cool beans

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Because that's what I said right Skyo Blob?

:roll:

It seems to me that you lament the missing piece of a tough star player - a Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, the kind of player who can get a Gordie Howe hat trick. I don't think anybody would disagree with you, it just so happens that the Canucks haven't been lucky enough to draft one. Ironic that you're one of the biggest critics of the Jake pick, when he's on a fairly typical power-forward trajectory. For comparison, Perry didn't make the NHL until year 3 after his draft, and he put up 25 points in 56 games. Getzlaf was the same, but got 25 points in 57 games. Call me crazy, but I'm not ready to say its impossible that Virtanen makes the squad and puts up 25 points next year.

But if we're not talking about the quasi-generational Big Tough Star, surely you'll agree that its a lot easier to acquire a Raffi Torres type than it is to acquire an offensively-skilled first liner.

p.s. Raffi was drafted 5th overall. Who do you think will have better careers - Torres or softies Juolevi and Peterssen?

Not saying size/toughness should be ignored, but I'm much happier to see JB reach at the draft table for skill rather than size.
ESQ
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Calgary_Canuck » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:48 am

Next year we will suck again, not a bad thing, it will produce some sort of higher draft position. Until we see where and which prospects turn out all we can do is keep throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks. From there we can tweak to what is needed. Being that power forwards take longer to develop I am glad they aren't getting more till we can get a core which can put points up. Size isn't really needed till we have a playoff team and we are far far away from that.
User avatar
Calgary_Canuck
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 pm
Location: Calgary, Alberta

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby SKYO » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:49 am

Linc wrote:We are in a rebuilding phase so I am ok with Benning adding skill this year and hopefully adding some brawn when the opportunity arises.


Exactly, all Cup teams start building a solid nucleus of scoring players, then they can swap out pieces like tires to constantly every year find some brawn/size to surround their scoring stars with some muscle, forecheckers etc, those types wear down quick, get overpaid, get worn down and are diminishing assets.

Those forecheckers, big fellas aren't vital to a winning team, the high end scorers are the diamonds for any team to build around so I'm happy that Benning is trying to find some diamonds in the rough via trade/ufa, draft some key pieces to build for the future.

Blackhawks had ladd, byfuglien, shaw all types of big hitters, forecheckers come and go no problem, but they kept with their scoring nucleus of players to build around.

A rock solid, long term successful team usually has 3-4 scoring players they keep forever, and just constantly bring in fresh new troops to surround em with hard workers, decent depth & then trade eventual overpaid 2nd/3rd liners for prospects/picks to keep their prospect cupboards stocked.



I think the canucks future core up front in a few years will be Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Dahlen, keep those four forever, & then draft/develop/trade out depth pieces before they need expensive contracts.

On defense you need to pick 3 long term keepers, Juolevi, (Hutton or Stecher) & (Tanev or Guds) would be my guess, Tryamkin IF he came back would be one of the long term types to keep though.
Canucks 2017/18
A NEW HOPE
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:02 am

ESQ wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:So the Canucks should employ a small, soft group of players that don't hit, don't forecheck , don't stand up for themselves or each other, turn the other cheek , turtle, dive and generally bore the home crowd to tears ? Cool beans

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Because that's what I said right Skyo Blob?

:roll:

It seems to me that you lament the missing piece of a tough star player - a Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, the kind of player who can get a Gordie Howe hat trick. I don't think anybody would disagree with you, it just so happens that the Canucks haven't been lucky enough to draft one. Ironic that you're one of the biggest critics of the Jake pick, when he's on a fairly typical power-forward trajectory. For comparison, Perry didn't make the NHL until year 3 after his draft, and he put up 25 points in 56 games. Getzlaf was the same, but got 25 points in 57 games. Call me crazy, but I'm not ready to say its impossible that Virtanen makes the squad and puts up 25 points next year.

But if we're not talking about the quasi-generational Big Tough Star, surely you'll agree that its a lot easier to acquire a Raffi Torres type than it is to acquire an offensively-skilled first liner.

p.s. Raffi was drafted 5th overall. Who do you think will have better careers - Torres or softies Juolevi and Peterssen?

Not saying size/toughness should be ignored, but I'm much happier to see JB reach at the draft table for skill rather than size.

I'm just saying he has had four years now to improve the size , speed and tenacity with this team. I know the Prongers, Benns, Getzlafs etc don't grow on trees but how bout a good third liner who's 210 and can chip in a few goals and doesn't cower when things get tough. Or a fourth liner like Ryan Reaves ? Or a modern day Bieksa. This team is quite possibly the softest team to ever ice a roster in the NHL.
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7876
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby micky107 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:34 am

Ya, you have to have some accountability punch-back on this team even now.
There has to be an environment where younger guys can strut their stuff.
And I don't just mean Megnas and Skilles, etc, who didn't create that, not to mention were actually put in wrong roles by WD.
"evolution"
User avatar
micky107
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2930
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:27 am

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Linc » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:36 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I don't think Linc's point had much to do with intimidation. Because of course you're right, Marchand will be Marchand regardless. But physical play does wear teams down, can cause turnovers, and injuries. If a guy can make the d-man move the puck .5 second earlier, or just throw it away, that helps the cause. A big problem with the Canucks up front is that it's going to be tough to play a retrieval game as it will be difficult to win puck battles down low.
[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Thanks Island Nucklehead, that is exactly the point I was trying to make. The physical play wears teams down, can cause turnovers, and injuries. It also gets teams to draw penalties. All these things help the skill guys to then take advantage of the mistakes made by the other team.

We lost two capable checkers in Hansen and Sbisa (say what you want about Sbisa, the guy always finished his checks). I feel sorry for Dorsett as it will be difficult for him to supply the physical play for the forwards all alone (unless Virtanen makes the team). I was hoping the Canucks might pick up Lance Bouma; but, perhaps that was the Bouma of a couple of years ago that I was hoping to see. I almost wonder at times whether the Canucks should experiment at converting Pedan or Biega to a forward. It is an experimental year so, as I said before, I am fine with Benning choosing skill first. However, I would like to see a better balance of skill players and gritty players so that the team is more difficult to play against.
Linc
AHL Prospect
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 10:38 am

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby SKYO » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:44 pm

Linc wrote: It is an experimental year so, as I said before, I am fine with Benning choosing skill first.


Yup, it's a good year to see who is going to score goals around here to keep moving forward.

Linc wrote:

However, I would like to see a better balance of skill players and gritty players so that the team is more difficult to play against.


Getting balance will be done after this upcoming season when the Sedins probably move on, we'll have much more flexibility then, plus our young guys Gadjovich/Virtanen will be another year older/stronger/developed to make the team.
Canucks 2017/18
A NEW HOPE
User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:40 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Linc wrote:I like the improvement on the skill side. However, I think good forecheckers create scoring chances. Remember when Raffi Torres played for the Canucks and lots of teams would bobble pucks because the players had their heads up worrying about being crushed by Torres. It is a rebuilding process and so it is good that we are adding skill; however, I take Blob's point that we need a bit more balance on the team and having some assholes might help our skilled guys capitalize on the scoring chances created by having some big bodies on the ice.


Dude , Doc and Skyo gonna be hating on this post.


:hmmm:

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Because that's what I said right Skyo Blob?


:roll:

viewtopic.php?p=285265#p285265
Strangelove Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:22 pm wrote:
I've been screaming for more assholes since Nonis was in charge!

I used to quote captain Naslund stating the need for dat dere.

GM Nonis acknowledged the hole... the asshole hole.

He kept promising to fill said hole but never really did.

Years later I was quoting captain Henrik stating the need for dat dere.

GM Gillis acknowledged the hole... the asshole hole.

He kept promising to fill said hole but never really did.

(other than 1 year of Torres and 1 year of Sestito)

Yeah, I argued hard against some of the top posters at the time (Potatoe, Coco, etc).

A lot of people were saying the game is changing, no need for assholes.

I distinctly remember debating this issue hard in the summers of 2010 + 2011.

So yes I agree about the need for assholes... especially when a team enters the contender phase.

But perhaps in the rebuild phase a team needs to evaluate young skill players first?

I suppose for now I'm going to have to make due with Dorsett, Guds... and a little Virtanen, Pedan.

Not sure why Bubbly Blob keeps saying I like a soft team, probably the booze talking...


I've decided to re-post the above every time Bubbly Blob trolls in this particular fashion.

5 demerit points for poster Blob.
____
GO CANUCKS GO!!!
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:41 pm

Linc wrote:However, you need to balance Sedins skill with some brute force.


Yup, the Great Strangelove has been saying this for at least 15 years.

Linc wrote:As a long time lurker, I thought that Doc might like my desire for some assholes.


LOL there you see Bubbly Blob, no one is buying what you're selling, however...

10 demerit points for poster Blob.
____
GO CANUCKS GO!!!
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:42 pm

ESQ wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:So the Canucks should employ a small, soft group of players that don't hit, don't forecheck , don't stand up for themselves or each other, turn the other cheek , turtle, dive and generally bore the home crowd to tears ? Cool beans


Blob Mckenzie wrote:Because that's what I said right Skyo Blob?


:roll:


Point taken, poster Blob is trolling again.

15 demerit points for poster Blob.
____
GO CANUCKS GO!!!
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Legend
 
Posts: 14157
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:37 am

McGinn and Stanton are the answer

Skill is tougher to acquire than toughness. Build skill and then plug in toughness. With the Sedins on their last legs it's obvious to the sane we need skill in the prospect pool. BTW if Blob had the balls to put his agenda aside for two secs he'd realize that al of Lockwood, Virtanen, Gaudette, Tryamkin, Lind, Gadjovich, McKenzie, McKewen can play a dirty, gritty game. But hey whatever blows your hair back
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
 
Posts: 9514
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:41 pm

RoyalDude wrote:McGinn and Stanton are the answer

Skill is tougher to acquire than toughness. Build skill and then plug in toughness. With the Sedins on their last legs it's obvious to the sane we need skill in the prospect pool. BTW if Blob had the balls to put his agenda aside for two secs he'd realize that al of Lockwood, Virtanen, Gaudette, Tryamkin, Lind, Gadjovich, McKenzie, McKewen can play a dirty, gritty game. But hey whatever blows your hair back


You acquire quality pieces when you can whether they are tough or skilled.There is no set order in which things are done. What you don't do is overpay soft shitty guys like Sutter, Eriksson or Sbisa. And you don't overpay dwarf enforcers who punch like a kitten.
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
 
Posts: 7876
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2017/18 Pacific Division

Postby Knucklehead » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:McGinn and Stanton are the answer

Skill is tougher to acquire than toughness. Build skill and then plug in toughness. With the Sedins on their last legs it's obvious to the sane we need skill in the prospect pool. BTW if Blob had the balls to put his agenda aside for two secs he'd realize that al of Lockwood, Virtanen, Gaudette, Tryamkin, Lind, Gadjovich, McKenzie, McKewen can play a dirty, gritty game. But hey whatever blows your hair back


You acquire quality pieces when you can whether they are tough or skilled.There is no set order in which things are done. What you don't do is overpay soft shitty guys like Sutter, Eriksson or Sbisa. And you don't overpay dwarf enforcers who punch like a kitten.


Your ass tastes like shit! How do I know this as I've never tasted it nor will I. It is because asses taste like shit and yours would be no different than others.

The difference is that like most dogs you can twist around and lick your own ass, so you tell me how does your ass taste. Not that I care.
Knucklehead
CC Veteran
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:39 am

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Cornuck, TDA Rum and 5 guests