2017 Canucks UFA signings

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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby ESQ » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:41 am

theman wrote:Horvat's contact not being done is very concerning. It should be a no brained.

As fir Draisitl, we are seeing the old boys club in action here. Definitely an unwritten rule here between GMs.


I think the old boys club is as much on the agents' side of the equation as well.

For the player, signing an offer sheet is a nuclear option and I believe players more often use the offer sheet for negotiating power without actually signing it. The offer sheet will guarantee acrimony and a spotlight on the signing player, which doesn't gell with the "aw shuck team first" mentality of most hockey players.

And Meds, a player who is still RFA-eligible cannot get trade protection under the CBA, it can't kick in until the player reaches UFA eligibility. Also, in the Weber offer sheet I believe you can't put NTCs on an offer sheet, hence why Nashville was able to move Weber.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:53 am

ESQ wrote:And Meds, a player who is still RFA-eligible cannot get trade protection under the CBA, it can't kick in until the player reaches UFA eligibility. Also, in the Weber offer sheet I believe you can't put NTCs on an offer sheet, hence why Nashville was able to move Weber.


I'm not 100% sure how this works, whether you can't include NTC/NMC in the offer sheet or if the first right of refusal only means the retaining team has to match term, salary and signing/reporting bonuses.

But if you do match the offer sheet you can't trade that player for at least a year.

https://www.silversevensens.com/2015/6/ ... ules-guide
What can a team do about an offer sheet on their RFA?

Assuming the player accepts the offer sheet, the team has two options. They have 7 days to make their choice.

The first option is to exercise their "Right of First Refusal". This means that they match the salary, term, signing bonus and reporting bonus of the offer sheet, and the player is considered signed. Additional terms such as no trade/no move clauses or performance bonuses are NOT included, but they can be negotiated separately. If a team exercises this right, they cannot trade the player for one year (to the day).

The second option is to let the player walk, and collect their compensation from the team that submitted the offer sheet.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby BladesofSteel » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Not sure either, but iirc, players can't retain a NTC/NMC until a certain age. I believe it's around 25-27 depending on pro experience.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:13 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
ESQ wrote:And Meds, a player who is still RFA-eligible cannot get trade protection under the CBA, it can't kick in until the player reaches UFA eligibility. Also, in the Weber offer sheet I believe you can't put NTCs on an offer sheet, hence why Nashville was able to move Weber.


I'm not 100% sure how this works, whether you can't include NTC/NMC in the offer sheet or if the first right of refusal only means the retaining team has to match term, salary and signing/reporting bonuses.

But if you do match the offer sheet you can't trade that player for at least a year.

https://www.silversevensens.com/2015/6/ ... ules-guide
What can a team do about an offer sheet on their RFA?

Assuming the player accepts the offer sheet, the team has two options. They have 7 days to make their choice.

The first option is to exercise their "Right of First Refusal". This means that they match the salary, term, signing bonus and reporting bonus of the offer sheet, and the player is considered signed. Additional terms such as no trade/no move clauses or performance bonuses are NOT included, but they can be negotiated separately. If a team exercises this right, they cannot trade the player for one year (to the day).

The second option is to let the player walk, and collect their compensation from the team that submitted the offer sheet.


Ya, it means the matching team only has to match salary, term and signing bonuses. NTC/NMC do not have to be matched but can be honoured or negotiated separately by matching team. With Weber, Flyers offer included trade protection. Nashville matched. Weber's agent asked Nashville to match trade protection. Nashville laughed and said no. As they should.

It was also a case of getting the last big FA contract over 7-8 years. Agents knew the new CBA would likely contain term limits for some sort.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:39 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Ya, it means the matching team only has to match salary, term and signing bonuses. NTC/NMC do not have to be matched but can be honoured or negotiated separately by matching team. With Weber, Flyers offer included trade protection. Nashville matched. Weber's agent asked Nashville to match trade protection. Nashville laughed and said no. As they should.


This is probably one of the reasons players are hesitant to sign offer sheets. They may not be able to negotiate NTC protection so they can't be moved to some bottom feeder in a few years!
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:35 pm

Meds wrote:I'm also curious as to why no team, that is in rebuild mode like we are, has signed Draisaitl to a massive offer sheet.

I can't see Draisaitl or his agent being so loyal to the Oilers that they wouldn't put pen to paper on a 7 year deal worth $7.5+M. Especially considering that Chiarelli has gone on record stating he will match any offer sheet that Draisaitl signs. If he wants to stay in Edmonton it would make sense to sign for that if he believes his GM's statement.

theman wrote:As fir Draisitl, we are seeing the old boys club in action here. Definitely an unwritten rule here between GMs.


ESQ wrote:I think the old boys club is as much on the agents' side of the equation as well.

For the player, signing an offer sheet is a nuclear option and I believe players more often use the offer sheet for negotiating power without actually signing it. The offer sheet will guarantee acrimony and a spotlight on the signing player, which doesn't gell with the "aw shuck team first" mentality of most hockey players.


Thank you ESQ, yup, we aren't ever going to hear about most offer sheets.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:41 pm

Meds wrote:I'm still wondering why Horvat's deal isn't done. That should have been locked up as soon as the playoffs were finished.

theman wrote:Horvat's contact not being done is very concerning. It should be a no brained.


This is a very important contract for both the player and the team

(unlike the contracts runny bubbling blob whines about)

... so yeah this kind of contract tends to take time.

I'd be interested in exactly what you geniuses think this contract should look like. :mex:
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Meds » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:22 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:I'm still wondering why Horvat's deal isn't done. That should have been locked up as soon as the playoffs were finished.

theman wrote:Horvat's contact not being done is very concerning. It should be a no brained.


This is a very important contract for both the player and the team

(unlike the contracts runny bubbling blob whines about)

... so yeah this kind of contract tends to take time.

I'd be interested in exactly what you geniuses think this contract should look like. :mex:


If I'm Bo's agent I'm looking for a bridge deal worth around $4.5M. If I'm the Canucks I'm looking at 8 years and around $6M max.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:53 pm

Meds wrote:If I'm Bo's agent I'm looking for a bridge deal worth around $4.5M. If I'm the Canucks I'm looking at 8 years and around $6M max.


Hmmm... that seems about right.

Your best guess (or two) at the eventual contract then?
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:If I'm Bo's agent I'm looking for a bridge deal worth around $4.5M. If I'm the Canucks I'm looking at 8 years and around $6M max.


Hmmm... that seems about right.

Your best guess (or two) at the eventual contract then?


$6.25m per for 8 years (at least half as good as McPayday :D ).
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby micky107 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:10 am

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:I'm still wondering why Horvat's deal isn't done. That should have been locked up as soon as the playoffs were finished.

theman wrote:Horvat's contact not being done is very concerning. It should be a no brained.


This is a very important contract for both the player and the team

(unlike the contracts runny bubbling blob whines about)

... so yeah this kind of contract tends to take time.

I'd be interested in exactly what you geniuses think this contract should look like. :mex:


I'm sure more will weigh in on this "direct question", as time goes by.
This contract is a tough one and what I post as a guess, isn't what I would like, but I have to be honest.
Bo is smart. His agent is smart, and Jim is smart.
Bo has seen a lot, particularly in the last 2 years. Before he commits long term, I think he may want to see more.
So unfortunately I have to guess he'll sign a two year 5.8 mill per.
Less than what he'd be looking for long term but more than Jim wants to pay for two, but I think Jim agrees to it.
In regards to the full 8 years, I think it would take 7.2 and at that point is where Jim would say, no, I have to see more. Can just imagine the agent saying, well if my client was on a better team, you would be seeing more and on and on so yeah, this is tough.
I know, my numbers are a little higher then most and like I said, this isn't what I want to be posting but I have to be honest. I very much hope I am wrong.....
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Meds » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:33 am

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:If I'm Bo's agent I'm looking for a bridge deal worth around $4.5M. If I'm the Canucks I'm looking at 8 years and around $6M max.


Hmmm... that seems about right.

Your best guess (or two) at the eventual contract then?


It won't be in the middle, and it won't be what the team wants. Bo holds all the cards. The team is rebuilding, they have all but named him as the new leader, and they have nobody who can replace him. I suspect the team goes as high as $6.75M or so to get the max term, as well as offer whatever else it takes.

If they are serious about him being the captain and future face of the franchise, then they better not piss him off now. And, iirc, Bo's agent is an ice man who pulls no punches.....
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:01 am

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:I'm still wondering why Horvat's deal isn't done. That should have been locked up as soon as the playoffs were finished.

theman wrote:Horvat's contact not being done is very concerning. It should be a no brained.


This is a very important contract for both the player and the team

(unlike the contracts runny bubbling blob whines about)

... so yeah this kind of contract tends to take time.

I'd be interested in exactly what you geniuses think this contract should look like. :mex:

Maybe if Elmer spent some more time negotiating Sutters and Erikssons boat anchors the Canucks cap wouldn't be in shambles. Instead he handed both guys a blank cheque while he guzzled his lucky lager.
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:39 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:If I'm Bo's agent I'm looking for a bridge deal worth around $4.5M. If I'm the Canucks I'm looking at 8 years and around $6M max.


Hmmm... that seems about right.

Your best guess (or two) at the eventual contract then?


$6.25m per for 8 years (at least half as good as McPayday :D ).

micky107 wrote:In regards to the full 8 years, I think it would take 7.2 and at that point is where Jim would say, no, I have to see more.

Meds wrote:I suspect the team goes as high as $6.75M or so to get the max term


Thanks for the feedback guys, given the way BennLinden is talking

... I'd say they have their hearts set on an 8-year contract.

And I think we're all in favour of that.

I'm going to go with $6.5M X 8 with an NTC for the first 6 years. :mex:
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Re: 2017 Canucks UFA signings

Postby Aaronp18 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:54 pm

Strangelove wrote:I'm going to go with $6.5M X 8 with an NTC for the first 6 years. :mex:


He won't qualify for a NTC until he's played 7 seasons or is 27 IIRC?!?

So it can be added once he qualifies for one but not in the first few years.
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