The Rebuild...

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
micky107
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7016
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:27 am

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:51 am

.
More experienced driver might help too. With the rebuild that is.


Image
"evolution"

Richardstroker69
MVP
MVP
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:14 am

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Richardstroker69 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:28 am

nuckster wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:58 pm
Just considering the 're-build' and where we are today and what is a reasonable time line for a rebuild.

JB was brought on-board after the 2013-14 season where we finished 36-35-11 (bye Loungo and bye Kesler). He re-tooled and the following season, 14-15, the Canucks finished 48-29-5 and made a quick departure in the first round of play-offs to Calgary. The following 3 seasons, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18, the Canucks finished no better than 31-38-13, now this season appears to be in the same ilk as the last 4.

If i recall correctly, JB never acknowledged actually pursuing a rebuild until late in the 15-16 season. So here we are in the 18-19 season - 3 years into the rebuild. So what do u think, what's a reasonable time span for a rebuild? How long does mgt. put up with being on the losing side of the ledger? In each of those losing years we should be able count on high draft picks sticking with the club. Might we also have the expectation of accumulating a few quality free agents as well (not talking about Eriksson here)?

So next season is year 4 of the rebuild you have to believe that the gig will be up - neither ownership nor long-suffering fans should have to endure any more of the sub-par bleah that we've been fed. Ole JB needs to be behind a turn of the tide so-to-speak or he's gone - but this is just my opinion. What do others believe is a reasonable time period for orchestrating a rebuild?
Rebuilds happen quicker when you get a first overall. Benning never got close to a pick like that. Look at Winnipeg, they’ve sucked forever, but I think we should see a marked improvement next year.

User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 7909
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cornuck » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am

As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
2018-19 - The Road to 82

User avatar
5thhorseman
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1347
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:04 pm

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by 5thhorseman » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:56 am

It would be nice to get a first overall pick, but I wouldn't sweat it if we don't get one. Look through the list; there's a ton of guys drafted first who never got near a Stanley Cup final round.

User avatar
micky107
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7016
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:27 am

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:01 pm

I sometimes wonder what may have been if the "lockout" of 94/95 had not occurred.
"evolution"

User avatar
rats19
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 9209
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 am
Location: over here.....

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by rats19 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:02 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
Lafayette crossbar
Refs/injuries
94/11
You are who you hang with.....

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 14041
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:12 pm

5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:56 am
It would be nice to get a first overall pick, but I wouldn't sweat it if we don't get one. Look through the list; there's a ton of guys drafted first who never got near a Stanley Cup final round.
I feel like Petey is a first overall talent. Elmer’s just got to slash the deadweight off the roster and add picks and prospects. And he can’t stub his toe in the top 10 anymore. Look at the Jets. Chevy hasn’t had a first round flop in 8 or 9 years. They just keep drafting quality players.
“SUTTER IS AS GOOD AS COUTURIER”

Hank
CC Legend
Posts: 3293
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Hank » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:35 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:28 am
Rebuilds happen quicker when you get a first overall. Benning never got close to a pick like that. Look at Winnipeg, they’ve sucked forever, but I think we should see a marked improvement next year.
So, you guys are saying a 3 year rebuild isn't really that long comparatively speaking.

Aqua certainly didn't fire Gillis to rebuild. And he certainly DID NOT hire Torts with a rich 5 year contract to rebuild.

Then he didn't hire Linden the goodwill ambassador to fire Torts with 4 years remaining after a disastrous year to rebuild. And he wouldn't have hired ANY management team to rebuild because the family always has playoff revenues in their sights. Anyone really think that any incoming GM would say "Nah, Francesco, I'm going to do what's good for you and blow this thing up" after he got hired? Seriously?

Do you get hired for a job, then show up to do the exact opposite of the job description?

Then after the terrible Canuck Luck where a weak team managed to eke into the playoffs only to be dusted by the Flames, Aqua was probably very disappointed but still didn't outwardly support a rebuild.

It was only until recently (after ousting Linden) that you heard the horse actually say to the supporters that they like their youth and need to preach patience... the same owner who didn't like Trev's message about patience.

So, if you looked at the real direction (the Aquas), it certainly hasn't been that long compared to some other teams that are still rebuilding. There's some really dire areas (cough, defencemen) but even fans can admit we're a team on the upswing.

Sure, it's 50 years, but that is the Hockey Gods' test for us.

RE: Winnipeg. That is an incredible record of successful 1st round picks which is definitely not the norm or league average. Something to try to model but who's to say anyone can model that? You have to be both good and lucky... and that's not the Canucks ;)
Try to focus on 1 year from now...

User avatar
Per
CC Legend
Posts: 4137
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 am

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Per » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:51 am

Cornuck wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
We had a championship team in 2011, but got robbed. :evil:
Whatever you do, always give 100 %!
Except when donating blood.

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 14041
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:16 am

Per wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:51 am
Cornuck wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
We had a championship team in 2011, but got robbed. :evil:
We got outscored 23-8 in 7 games
“SUTTER IS AS GOOD AS COUTURIER”

User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
Posts: 14042
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:39 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:12 pm
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:56 am
It would be nice to get a first overall pick, but I wouldn't sweat it if we don't get one. Look through the list; there's a ton of guys drafted first who never got near a Stanley Cup final round.
I feel like Petey is a first overall talent. Elmer’s just got to slash the deadweight off the roster and add picks and prospects. And he can’t stub his toe in the top 10 anymore. Look at the Jets. Chevy hasn’t had a first round flop in 8 or 9 years. They just keep drafting quality players.
Nicolaj “Mason Raymond, 5’-11” 170 lbs, always injured, shitty in the playoffs” Ehlers

Laine? Where did he go? 113th in scoring
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 14041
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:00 am

Ehlers has a grand total of 15 playoff games and 7 points. But yeah he’s always shitty in the playoffs :roll:

Laine is an immature kid. Still might score 40 this year. But hey we got Razor Thin Olaf from that draft. He might suit up in 2021.
“SUTTER IS AS GOOD AS COUTURIER”

User avatar
micky107
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7016
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:27 am

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:52 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:16 am
Per wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:51 am
Cornuck wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:46 am
As for the whole "rebuild" - I feel I've been watching a 50 (SO) year rebuild. Or is it a "Build" - since we really haven't built a championship team, yet?
We had a championship team in 2011, but got robbed. :evil:
We got outscored 23-8 in 7 games
I hate his contract too. Still.
"evolution"

Ronning's Ghost
MVP
MVP
Posts: 976
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:25 pm
Location: New Westminster

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:18 am

Hank wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:35 pm
Aqua certainly didn't fire Gillis to rebuild. And he certainly DID NOT hire Torts with a rich 5 year contract to rebuild.

Then he didn't hire Linden the goodwill ambassador to fire Torts with 4 years remaining after a disastrous year to rebuild. And he wouldn't have hired ANY management team to rebuild because the family always has playoff revenues in their sights. Anyone really think that any incoming GM would say "Nah, Francesco, I'm going to do what's good for you and blow this thing up" after he got hired? Seriously?

Do you get hired for a job, then show up to do the exact opposite of the job description?

Then after the terrible Canuck Luck where a weak team managed to eke into the playoffs only to be dusted by the Flames, Aqua was probably very disappointed but still didn't outwardly support a rebuild.

It was only until recently (after ousting Linden) that you heard the horse actually say to the supporters that they like their youth and need to preach patience... the same owner who didn't like Trev's message about patience.

So, if you looked at the real direction (the Aquas)...
That the Little Eagles, or possibly Linden, are the real authors of the "re-tool on the fly" folly is widely accepted here, (except, perhaps, by those who maintain that rebuild actually started with Benning's arrival), but do we have any evidence to support that idea? Is it not just as likely that Benning, with a canny sense of what his prospective employers wanted to hear, told them in his interview "Don't listen to those other guys; you don't have to do a rebuild. I can get this team back into contention next year with a few off-season moves" ?
Hank wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:35 pm
RE: Winnipeg. That is an incredible record of successful 1st round picks which is definitely not the norm or league average. Something to try to model but who's to say anyone can model that? You have to be both good and lucky... and that's not the Canucks ;)
Overall, drafting 18 year-olds is tricky and fraught with uncertainty, but in the top 10 positions, seemingly less so. Certainly, some teams manage to wiff, but even notoriously poor drafter Mike Gillis got it right in his only attempt. If Winnipeg can manage it consistently, then it would seem to be within the ability of a hockey management genius.

User avatar
SKYO
CC Legend
Posts: 10459
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:05 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:12 pm
5thhorseman wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:56 am
It would be nice to get a first overall pick, but I wouldn't sweat it if we don't get one. Look through the list; there's a ton of guys drafted first who never got near a Stanley Cup final round.
I feel like Petey is a first overall talent. Elmer’s just got to slash the deadweight off the roster and add picks and prospects. And he can’t stub his toe in the top 10 anymore. Look at the Jets. Chevy hasn’t had a first round flop in 8 or 9 years. They just keep drafting quality players.
Yeah the Jets had a rough first SIX years with one playoff appearance losing 1st round.

Then lucked out in the 2016 draft lotto (Canucks had 11.5% to pick 1st, Jets 7.5% they were 6th last in the league [ironically where the Canucks currently are] ) - they won the 2nd overall - moving up to draft Patrik Laine - a year later they go on a superb playoff run to lose to Vegas in conference finals.

2016 draft lotto odds: https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016 ... puljujarvi
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

Post Reply