The Rebuild...

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Tciso
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Tciso » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:26 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:39 pm
Tciso wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:31 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:20 pm
Benning has to go out and get a Bourque, Orr, Potvin or Lidstrom! If Elmer can't do something that simple, he needs to go.
So, you are saying we need a generational player, or at least the best in their position player, and getting them is simple. Peter Chiarelli/Lou Lamoriello simple, eh Dude???

By the way, who in the league fits that description you gave above?
Apparently - "it's just that easy, folks!"
Shel, is that you???
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ESQ
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by ESQ » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:51 pm

Throughout most of the Crawford/Vigneault eras, the Canucks consistently had at least one defenceman over 40 points, and 2-3 in the mid-30s. From 01/02 to 13/14, there was only one season without a 40+ point Dman.

Under 3 years of Willie, the best output was Edler's 31 points in 14/15 (I believe he had a red-hot streak to end the season), since then nobody's cracked 25 points - and it doesn't look like any blueliner on this year's squad will either.

After AV's first season in NY, he's had a 40+ point dman and 2-3 in the mid-30s each of the past 3 seasons.

I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, but I suspect its as much a systems issue as a skills issue, remembering those seasons where Sopel got 42 points and Baumgartner got 34 points under Crow...

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micky107
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:50 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:39 pm
Tciso wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:31 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:20 pm
Benning has to go out and get a Bourque, Orr, Potvin or Lidstrom! If Elmer can't do something that simple, he needs to go.
So, you are saying we need a generational player, or at least the best in their position player, and getting them is simple. Peter Chiarelli/Lou Lamoriello simple, eh Dude???

By the way, who in the league fits that description you gave above?
Apparently - "it's just that easy, folks!"
Good sarcasm! You forgot the Coffee,
Seriously though, we don't need to get into any Karlsson sweepstakes.
Seabrook? Unthinkable. ;)
"evolution"

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ukcanuck
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by ukcanuck » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:18 am

Topper wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:49 pm
The JuJu man was drafted by a the Genius.
Was going to say perhaps Juolevi will be that guy for us ?

Seems like an offensive defensemen to me

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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:25 am

ESQ wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:51 pm
Throughout most of the Crawford/Vigneault eras, the Canucks consistently had at least one defenceman over 40 points, and 2-3 in the mid-30s. From 01/02 to 13/14, there was only one season without a 40+ point Dman.

Under 3 years of Willie, the best output was Edler's 31 points in 14/15 (I believe he had a red-hot streak to end the season), since then nobody's cracked 25 points - and it doesn't look like any blueliner on this year's squad will either.

After AV's first season in NY, he's had a 40+ point dman and 2-3 in the mid-30s each of the past 3 seasons.

I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, but I suspect its as much a systems issue as a skills issue, remembering those seasons where Sopel got 42 points and Baumgartner got 34 points under Crow...
It’s definitely more a skill issue. Ohlund, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Young Edler, Jovo, Sopel >>>>>>> Pouliot, Hutton, Stecher, Old Edler, Gudbranson, and the army of slugs Elmer has brought in.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:28 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:18 am
Topper wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:49 pm
The JuJu man was drafted by a the Genius.
Was going to say perhaps Juolevi will be that guy for us ?

Seems like an offensive defensemen to me
He might be. I don’t think he is going to be a true quarterback type guy , more of an all situations type who moves the puck well and plays on one of the pp units. Either way he is one guy but in today’s NHL the good teams have most of all or their d men able to jump up into the rush and play good D. This ass end needs a major overhaul. Have a look at the guys Nashville can throw out there for 3/4 of the game or Tampa Bay.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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RoyalDude
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:26 am

Juolevi and Tryamkin ( when he returns and you know he will) is a good start, just need to keep chipping away at it. Brisebios is spreading his wings, I like this Chatfield.

The Avalanche managed to shore up there future D in short order by drafting Makar and Timmins last draft and traded for Girard. JimBro has the ability to shore up the D future, he's done some fine work in the forward position. Onwards and upwards - JimBro Benning
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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:45 am

We absolutely DON’T know if Tryamkin will return. Chatfield is soon to be 22 and has a meagre 4 assists in 32 games in Utica. Elmer has traded away basically an entire round of draft picks for Pedan, Pouliot, Larsen and Gudbranson. There’s a decent chance none of those guys are with the organization next season. Forsling was inexplicably given away for Clendenning. So you have elderly prospect Mcaneny and butter soft no offence Brisebois in the system and that’s it. The D is a mess.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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micky107
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:15 am

Quite frankly, Tryamkin's agent, unless he is on some sort of weird patriotic agenda, should be telling him to cash in on the Canucks for next year.
Your numbers are great. Your health is good. The team is desperate for what you can bring.
Every year you wait now, intangibles could change everything.
Is this wrong?
"evolution"

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Strangelove
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:00 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:16 pm
RoyalDude wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:51 pm
Just that easy folks - Shell Bussy

Listen, Gillis should not have traded the 10th overall pick for a cokehead in the minors. He should have instead drafted Erik Karlsson! There's your 15 goal, 40 point Norris Trophy!
Agreed, but has anyone claimed Gillis to be a genuis?
It happened more than you think.

I just perused the archives but I hesitate to post the quotes.

Off-topic no?
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RoyalDude
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:07 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:16 pm
Agreed, but has anyone claimed Gillis to be a genuis?
You need to understand something, the firing of Gillis devastated, Bubbles. He loved the man. Gillis was more than a Genius in Bubbles eyes, he was fire, the earth, the air and water to him. The All Seeing.
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Strangelove
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Strangelove » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:11 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:45 am
We absolutely DON’T know if Tryamkin will return.
Recent reports indicate he will return to the NHL within the next coupla years.

Either he returns to YOUR Vancouver Canucks or Jimbro trades him for some nice assets.

Not sure why you paint everything in a negative light, it's almost like you had some hidden agenda. :wink:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:45 am
Elmer has traded away basically an entire round of draft picks for Pedan, Pouliot, Larsen and Gudbranson. There’s a decent chance none of those guys are with the organization next season.
Well Pedan was traded for Pouliot and if Pouliot goes (why would he?) we'd get assets back for him right?

Likewise with Gudbranson... if he goes we'd get assets back for him right?
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RoyalDude
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:22 pm

Personally i'd rather have Mallet back. The 2nd round Mike Gillis coup! Not sure who the bigger 2nd round steal out of all of the Gillis 2nd round picks - Rodin, Sauve or Mallet?
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RoyalDude
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:28 pm

Jared McCann - 5 goals 6 assists 30 Games NHL
Rasmus Asplund - 4 goals 18 assists 32 games Swedish Hockey League
Sam Bennett - 5 goals 11 assists 42 games
Nick Ritchie - 3 goals 8 assists 37 games
Andrew Ladd - 9 goals 9 assists - Signed a 7 year $5.5 Million Cap Hit contract same year we signed Eriksson.
Brockstar - Drafted 23rd Overall
Tryamkin - Drafted 66th overall. 9 goals 15 assists,42 games 109 PIMs. Voted KHL Defenseman of the Month twice
Demko - Drafted 36th overall
Gaudette - Leading the NCAA in scoring 15 goals, 15 assists in 20 games, drafted 149th overall
Pettersen, was leading the SEL in scoring as an 18 year old before WJC's. Bubles wanted Gabe Vilardi
Brent Seabrook - No Statistical Information Required. Bad, very bad.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Madcombinepilot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:33 pm

With the team fading fast (for various reasons) These are the moves I would like to see:

1) Trade either Edler or Ericksson. One of these guys has to go this year (I realize that moving either will be tough, but Benning has shown a knack for dumping NTC/NMC type contracts). I think this is the year to move Edler. We have a glut of Defencemen and need room to keep the younger ones. With Edler gone, we can pay and keep Gudbrandson, and move him later if required. I prefer keeping Gudbrandson over edler (this year) as Goober is younger, bigger and plays heavier. They skate the same and pretty much make the same number of mistakes. Goober is near his sustainable peak, Edler is declining. Take picks or a defensive prospect (or both).. we hated to lose Ohlund, but when it's time to go, it's time to go. We got over Ohlund, we will get over Edler. Only 2 guys on this team should be allowed to choose their fate, and they share the same last name.

2) expose Eriksson in the expansion draft. If Jimmy can trade this contract for picks, amazing. I don't think he can, so expose the shit out him. we need we roster spot more than we need this guy.

3) Chaput heads back to Utica and stays there... forever. Dowd has been getting better every game as he learns our system, and plays just fine for a 4th line center. Chaput is expendable. Neither is worth a bag of pucks.

4) Gaunce is killed in a freak revolving door accident at the local Wal Mart.
Seriously, I fail to see the hard on some people have for him. I get that he is sound defensively, but offence goes to die on his stick. In the offensive zone, the play dies 9 times out of 10 with him. He panics (or whatever) in zone. It's a bad pass, worse shot, blocked shot, bad dump in, turnover, puck bobbled... count them next game. He hasn't scored on his own shot in YEARS.
Like Boucher, for whatever reason, the offence does not translate into the NHL. Any asset worth more than a 4th round pick is awesome for both, anything less, both those guys are probably more valuable in the AHL helping Utica with a winning culture (and I believe in that mindset as well)

5) Goldobin has about 2 weeks to prove he has the drive/compete level/motor (whatever you want to call intensity) to stay here and play top 6. You can't get by on skill alone. He is top 6 or bust. We already had a red light/green light Russian player.. we don't have the roster space for another. If Gobby can't show consistency, move him for an asset in this here deep draft. My opinion is he is more valuable as a pick than a pouty player in Utica.

6) Nilsson is moved. He is a servicable backup when he has decent defence in front of him (as proved early in the season when we were healthy). On a rebuilding defence corps, he can't handle it and plays small (as seen lately).. how can a man that large shrink down and expose that much of the upper net?? -- oh wait, it's a lack of confidence. If we don't get a backup in exchange, we pick up a scrub. This season is a write off anyways. Markstromm needs all the starts he can get, unless the plan is to shelter him (marks) to keep from ruining Markstromm from shell shock. (see the Oilers goalie prospects from the last 2 decades). If we are sheltering Marks a bit, then Nilsson is worth the price. It's Coaches call on this as coaches see goalies every day and we don't. Goalies are hard to read because they are so damn quirky.

We need about 28 wins in our last games to realistically have a shot at making the playoffs. I don't see that happening with the injuries we have. Time to start working the phones. I don't believe in tanking (we won't ever draft higher than 3) but I am also realistic.

If on any of these moves we somehow land (through amazing asset management) that defensive guy (read: 'Stud') then that gives us the ability to move Gudbrandson or Hutton as part of that stud trade. If no stud trade and we go into next year with Tanev, Gudbrandson, Hutton, Stetcher, Pouliot, and Del Zotto as our top 6, Biega (I love his compete level!) as 7, and callups of Joulevi, and whomever else is competing at Utica, I am comfortable with that. If there is an upgrade on Hutton or Gudbrandson added in, awesome. Speeds the rebuild process. Plus, Tryamkin might come back. If he does, Hutton will need to be moves in the offseason.

On forward, a top 6 of Horvat, Boesser, Bartschi, Peterson (if ready), Goldobin (if he stays) and Vanek is good. If the Sedins want 1 year deals for 1.5 million (plus incentives) they anchor the third line. A 4th line of Grandlund-Sutter-Gagne is the best 4th line in hockey. Dowd is the filler. Virtanen is a variable. Virts might blossom as the power forward we all drool about, he might play third line with the twins (he still has a couple more years before I pull the plug on him blooming into the second coming of Bertuzzi). Grandlund or Gagne have potential to play up if Goldobin or Petterson fail, but there is still internal competition for top six spots from Dahlin (prolly plays Utica next year with Petterson), Lockwood (after christmas), Gadjovich, Lind, etc to fill in the holes. If there is no Sedins next year (and I think there will be - they deserve the right to choose if they play here or not) we look for some UFA's like we did last year. We won't need 4 new ones next year, but we might need 1 or 2.
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