The Rebuild...

[Ronning's Ghost]

I'm disappointed, that is not how one properly debates Cliffy.

I submit that a bold assertion followed by a weaselly, ass-covering, back-pedaling, parenthetical qualifier isn't exactly top-flight forum debating form, either.

Too bad you can't build a time machine to go back and oppose the Vey trade at the time.

I did not oppose the specifics of the trade at the time, because I bought into the narrative the Benning was an unusually astute judge of talent and may have seen things that others missed. I did oppose the principle of trading draft picks for older players

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10927&p=261513&hili ... ft#p261513

and point out that Vey wasn't even the player Benning said he wanted

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10901&p=254759&hilit=Vey#p254759

But we still agree on the main point. All that matters in assessing Benning's work is how the Canucks are doing in the "1-2 years" that have been reverberating around this board. If they are doing well (and I plan a poll on what would qualify), then Benning has done a great job. Unfortunately your kool-aid addiction prevents you from even contemplating the implications if the Canucks are not doing well.

[Blob Mckenzie]

RG is Rooney ,Odd Todd is Beckham and Doc is the soccer ball. Maybe take a knee oldtimer , you're getting abused.

[Topper]

soccer balls make it to the World Cup Final.

[Cousin Strawberry]

RG is Rooney ,Odd Todd is Beckham and Doc is the soccer ball. Maybe take a knee oldtimer , you're getting abused.

[Mickey107]

Look-out

Taunting is abound.........

[Ronning's Ghost]

Taunting is abound........

No taunting intended, at least on my part. For one it's not my style, but perhaps more importantly, it is much too soon, with the matter still very much in doubt.

For me, the Benning-authored rebuild is very much like young Jake Virtanen's hockey career: not looking so good right now, but it's still far too early to tell for sure. Maybe in 1-2 years both are looking great. That won't mean there weren't mistakes made along the way, but both Benning and Virtanen are new to their professional hockey roles.

[Mickey107]

That is a fascinating comparison RG. I've never looked at it that way..
Not bad. Not too bad at all.....

[SKYO]

Virtanen like Benning this is a pivotal year for both.

The 2014 draft all the top 10 picks have played significant games thus far, thus I have come to the conclusion this is the make or break year for Virtanen, if he doesn't how progress this upcoming season - if he's healthy for the most part - then it's not looking good.



Except MDC looking like a bust and H. Fleury hasn't played a NHL game yet.



Biech however said Virtanen has been generating shots at a 1st line rate.

Ryan Biech: It's worth noting - that despite eTOI of 3rd line minutes for Virtanen, he still generated shots at 1st line rate in Utica

So that shows some hidden potential in Virtanen despite the lack of scoring on the horrid Comets team, he's the type that has throw a ton'o shots on net, and usually those types can at least be 20 goal scorers in the NHL.

I think he'd do best this upcoming season on the 4th line with an equally big young aggressive LW to feed off the energy.

Like for instance Tampa's Adam Erne - Chaput - Virtanen type of line.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Lol Dal Colle is a bust after he scored more than twice as many points in the AHL as the Fake. But Jake will be a 20 goal scorer because he flipped a lot of long range wrist shots at the opposing goalies crest. Good times.

[SKYO]

So you're saying MDC deserves a chance and some patience to come around?

& MDC has eerily the same build and size/skillset as Glass.

I'd argue that MDC being weak in the corners is what will prevent him from being a scorer.

A big part of MDC success (at the junior level) was puck protection and being good on the cycle/coming off the boards and shooting. You can't do that sort of stuff successfully at the pro level if you're constantly losing those battles or getting the puck knocked off you.

Strength is a bigger need than speed for Dal Colle's game. Without wheels, that's where Dal Colle will have to play to be effective.

Sounds like Cody Glass, wonky skating, rail thin, easily pushed off puck, lack of strength.

Seems to be how you are generally at late draft is typically how you're going to be in the pro's if you make it, albeit a bit stronger and faster after awhile, but if you're naturally built big and solid in your genes, it's how you're going to be later on.

Why I prefer Vilardi or even Mittelstadt, both are already playing a low heavy game, with some mass.

[Mickey107]

Would Pittsburgh drafting "Jake", haha, Guentzel 77th overall in 2013 be considered "Genius" ?

Or is this just a wild fluke and a matter that the rich get richer..mmmm

[Aaronp18]

Sounds like Cody Glass, wonky skating, rail thin, easily pushed off puck, lack of strength.

Why I prefer Vilardi or even Mittelstadt, both are already playing a low heavy game, with some mass.

Where are you getting this shit on Glass? Everything I read says he has great top end speed, excellent skater for his size, needs muscle but that's the norm for kids who go through growth spurts when they are 16-17. He's already added 10 lbs throughout the 2016-17 season, he could easily be pushing 200lbs before the start of the season.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draf ... Cody-Glass

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2017/5/18/ ... le-players

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... y-full-yet

He looks like a later developing player. Needs to work on his explosiveness, which is exactly what Horvat needed to do and he's made huge strides.

He's being compared to Ryan Johansen and Mark Scheifele.

His coach, who saw Johansen develop, is drawing very similar comparisons between the two. Already a solid 200' player who just needs to add muscle. If he's eventually 215-220 and 6'3"-6'5" we'd have the centre we've been lacking for years!

[SKYO]

He's beanpole, he posted a pic of him and his family and they are all tall skinny dudes.

http://thehockeywriters.com
"Glass’ skating is a bit awkward"

Under Construction (Improvements to Make)

Skating refinement
Needs to add mass to NHL frame
Shoot the puck more

NHL Potential

With some added muscle to go with his pro frame coupled with excellent playmaking ability, Glass has top-six upside in the NHL.

Skating
http://lastwordonsports.com/2017/04/03/ ... l-draft-6/
Cody Glass is a decent skater. Once he gets going, he shows very good speed. He could stand to work on his first step and his acceleration though. There is a bit of a short and jerky quality to his starts and it robs him of some quickness. If he can improve this area he will be even more dangerous.

And all the amateur "pros" in the boards mentioned his skating isn't his strong suit.

But everyone has mentioned he's a skinny dude, needs to add muscle, everyone keeps thinking he can add mass somehow, but its genetic he's stuck at being a thin fella.

[Aaronp18]

He's beanpole, he posted a pic of him and his family and they are all tall skinny dudes.

You ignored his strengths:
Strengths

Playmaking skills are excellent
Defensively responsible while still being an offensive threat
Hard, accurate shot
Above average speed

Hell in that article you quoted his risk /reward analysis was:
Risk - 1/5, Reward - 5/5

It sounds a lot like he needs refinement. He's not going to step into the NHL right away, give him another year at least.

What does the rest of his family do? Are they professional athletes who need to add muscle? He may look like a bean pole right now but if he works hard to fill out he can be a great NHL player by the sounds of things.

[Strangelove]

But when Doc insists that
"EVERY SINGLE MOVE Jimmy has made since He got here seems brilliant in retrospect"

It seems to me reasonable to bring up his most obvious, clear-cut mistake.

Actually this is what the Great Strangelove said:

EVERY SINGLE MOVE Jimmy has made since He got here seems brilliant in retrospect.
(or at least logical when put in perspective)

Funny that... after I indeed put said trade into "logical perspective"...

... you completely ignore that and continue with your "clear-cut mistake" narrative.

I'm disappointed, that is not how one properly debates Cliffy.

I submit that a bold assertion followed by a weaselly, ass-covering, back-pedaling, parenthetical qualifier isn't exactly top-flight forum debating form, either.

Regardless of how my parenthetical qualifier makes you feel

.... you still don't get to ignore said parenthetical qualifier as though it did not exist.

Further, you still have not attempted to rebut my "logical perspective" on the Vey trade

... which means you clearly have thrown in the towel, lost the "debate"...

Too bad you can't build a time machine to go back and oppose the Vey trade at the time.

I did not oppose the specifics of the trade at the time, because I bought into the narrative the Benning was an unusually astute judge of talent and may have seen things that others missed. I did oppose the principle of trading draft picks for older players

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10927&p=261513&hili ... ft#p261513

and point out that Vey wasn't even the player Benning said he wanted

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10901&p=254759&hilit=Vey#p254759

Dafock dude, those are two posts you made in the last year or so

... but we were clearly talking about "at the time" 3 years ago!

W D F is wrong with you boy!