The Rebuild...

[DonCherry4PM]

I am so sorry, but with only a 18% chance (thats 'actual' chance, not the 'NHL hates us' chance - which is 'zero') to get 1st overall pick, I just can't Get behind the 'tank' mentality. I would rather try and win and lose because we suck, than play or be coached to lose.

I hope We don't finish last. Anything but last. I accept we will never win the lottery to get 1st overall pick, and will move forward with that acceptance of my belief.

I hate fucking losing.

Until they change the lottery system, I say we play to win.

What do you define as the "tank" mentality?

Do you define is as trading veteran/aging assets for young players and picks which is likely to result in fewer wins now but projects better later on (i.e. what many here have been suggesting)? Or do you define it to be doing whatever is necessary to lose in order to get the best possible draft pick? Or do you define it as something else?

For me, I don't want the team to try to lose but so long as we aren't anywhere close to being competitive, I'd rather get a guaranteed higher draft pick (if we are last, we are guaranteed to have no worse than 4th) than have the bragging rights of not being last. I'd rather take the worse pain now in hopes that it will go away sooner. Rip the band-aid clean off so to speak in hopes that healing will be quicker.

[Mickey107]

I am so sorry, but with only a 18% chance (thats 'actual' chance, not the 'NHL hates us' chance - which is 'zero') to get 1st overall pick, I just can't Get behind the 'tank' mentality. I would rather try and win and lose because we suck, than play or be coached to lose.

I hope We don't finish last. Anything but last. I accept we will never win the lottery to get 1st overall pick, and will move forward with that acceptance of my belief.

I hate fucking losing.

Until they change the lottery system, I say we play to win.

Yup: You and almost all the season's ticket holders, I would think. There is no-way they can be blamed for feeling that way.
Everyone knows winning is fun but it's a business too. Doesn't have to be all the time but enough to send the signal of what can be.

[Cornuck]

So how does a team "tank" - is it the GM making bad moves to make the team worse? Is it the coach benching better players? Is it the team deciding as a whole to give up?

Other than giving more ice time to younger players for the purpose of evaluating them, I don't see the GM and coach having much say at this point. We have a number of young players who might be playing their way on or off the team with these last games.

So I can see a team not putting in effort on the last game if meant drafting #1 or #2 - but the lottery gets rid of that.

In the meantime, you have a team full of pros who have spent their whole lives being ultra competitive and hate losing. Are they suddenly going to 'tank'? There might less incentive to take that huge hit or block a shot, but the more they do that, the more the 'losing culture' creeps in.

So will the team tank? I don't think so - we just suck right now.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Fuck that. Tank this bitch through to the end...we're right there.

The top line for the rest of the season :
Dowd, Gagger and gaunce

We dont score again this season.

Tanking with a purpose will show the HGs that we are fully commited to the sucking.

Next year we Vegas the shit out of our roster

[Cornuck]

The top line for the rest of the season :
Dowd, Gagger and gaunce

Tanking with a purpose will show the HGs that we are fully commited to the sucking.

Taunt the HGs and that WILL be our first line due to injuries....

[Madcombinepilot]

. What do you define as the "tank" mentality?

All those hoping we lose and end up in last.
All those wanting Green to play the team on tryouts. (Not saying don't play the kids, but keep scrubs like jokinen off the ice)
All those ho cheer when opposition scores against us.

Gaunce Gagne and Dowd with first line ice time is simply retarded. (No offence to handicapped people -- they are simply handicapped - this trio as our first line is retarded)


I understand we suck, and are fighting injuries, and if we lose, we lose. but the idea of losing on purpose for a lousy 18% chance of first pick is wrong.

[Ronning's Ghost]

So how does a team "tank" - is it the GM making bad moves to make the team worse? Is it the coach benching better players? Is it the team deciding as a whole to give up?

This was discussed in the wider sports media somewhere and i regret that I don't have time right now to chase down a link, but in brief: players never tank. Everyone in the game has to try as hard as they can all the time; you can't let any other mentality creep in. GMs, on the other hand, can take a longer view. Many here were OK with trading away players at the deadline who might have helped the Canucks win more game this year, but weren't part of a long-term solution, in return for assets that might pay off later. You can shut down players with injuries who might be soldiering on in a playoff push in order to have them fully healed up for next season. Coaches are in the middle. They must always play their best system and seek the players' best effort, but they can allocate ice time with a view to the longer game. We already know what Sedins can and can't do, but it is useful to find out what the Canucks have in younger players, and to give them game time to develop when the outcome is less important.

Yes, it's only a statistically better chance of drafting higher, but the whole game of hockey is based on an accumulation of probabilities. A player probably won't score on any given shot, but the team that moves the puck to a combination of better scoring positions and more shot opportunities wins more games.

I have been critical of the Canucks leadership before, but I think they are handling the end of this season sensibly on the whole.

[rikster]

Just imagine what he could do with more late round picks!

Oh the irony....

On one hand we should get rid of everybody for a bunch of rounds 4 thru 7 draft picks because we can find impact players there but on the other hand we are p*ssed off because we will never win the first overall pick only having a 18% chance... lol

If I`m the Canucks Travis continues to coach the same way he has all year long and players should view this as an early training camp with all spots on the roster open and what they do to finish this season will have as much impact, maybe more on their chances of earning a spot out of camp next season....

Take care...

[Blob Mckenzie]

Nobody said they should get rid of everyone for 4th to 7th round picks. But letting guys walk for nothing on July 1st is asinine though, especially on a team out of the playoffs each Christmas. More picks is more chances. Not sure why some have such difficulty grasping that. Moving 2nds for scrubs and including them in trades when you shouldn’t is also very dumb.

[Todd Bersnoozi]

I dunno, seems like most of our guys have packed it in for the season. I don't see the same fire/competitive juices as when we were beating some pretty good teams consistently early during the season. Of course, the injury situation doesn't help. Even opposing teams, they seem to feel sorry for us. They know they'll have an easy nite against us and they don't even bother trying to ruff up the Sedins or any of our dinky guys for that matter.

[Richardstroker69]

I dunno, seems like most of our guys have packed it in for the season. I don't see the same fire/competitive juices as when we were beating some pretty good teams consistently early during the season. Of course, the injury situation doesn't help. Even opposing teams, they seem to feel sorry for us. They know they'll have an easy nite against us and they don't even bother trying to ruff up the Sedins or any of our dinky guys for that matter.

I agree, they’ve definitely packed it in, I think the mentality now is to not get injured so you can get a full summer of training in.

[SKYO]

The only players who are playing with some fire is the unproven youth who are fighting for jobs, the vets are out of it, even the young vets like Horvat probably is going through the motions a bit.

Half the team is out with various injuries.

Players who are auditioning for next season:

Tyler Motte, Brendan Leipsic, Goldobin, Virtanen, Boucher, Archi.

Hutton, Stecher and Pouliot only one of these dmen shall prevail imesho for next season.
I think Green likes Pouliot, but he enjoys Stecher hustle-but he's not getting any points (sophomore jinx or)

[Richardstroker69]

The only players who are playing with some fire is the unproven youth who are fighting for jobs, the vets are out of it, even the young vets like Horvat probably is going through the motions a bit.

Half the team is out with various injuries.

Players who are auditioning for next season:

Tyler Motte, Brendan Leipsic, Goldobin, Virtanen, Boucher, Archi.

Hutton, Stecher and Pouliot only one of these dmen shall prevail imesho for next season.
I think Green likes Pouliot, but he enjoys Stecher hustle-but he's not getting any points (sophomore jinx or)

I think it’s more Pouliot vs Hutton, stetcher as a rhd that works hard is gonna make it, maybe as the 7th guy though.

[DonCherry4PM]

Just imagine what he could do with more late round picks!

Oh the irony....

Perhaps irony if one looks at percentages without context.

In context, many of those who feel we won't win first overall in the event we have an 18% chance feel that: a) the league isn't exactly above board in their administration of the lottery (i.e. Suspicion that 18% for a favoured team might not be the same as 18% for an unfavored team); or b) that the Canucks have bad juju or some similar negative vibe (i.e. Superstition that 18% won't be effective because of karma, bad luck etc.). Further, many of those who feel that JB can find core players in the later rounds feel that he has a better than average chance of this due to his skill (or maybe even genius) at drafting (i.e. Confidence that he is a good drafter and that the more chances he has, the more he will succeed at better than average percentages).

Personally, I don't think any draft pick no matter what round is a sure thing until that draft pick is playing in the NHL and playing in such a way that it's apparent he will be staying. Because of this, I would prefer that JB have as many chances as possible to use what I see as one of his primary strengths as a GM (whether that is using a 1st round pick or a 4th etc.).

Dahlin may be an exception to the above.

[ESQ]

NHLPA has signed off on the latest tinkered-with lottery odds.
31st-18.5%
30th - 13.5%
29th -11.5%

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