The Rebuild...

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Meds
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Meds »

Hockey Widow wrote: This is not a good team. Maybe the playoffs but knocked out 1st round.But the tank approach for a full rebuild sets us back 5 years.
Could you explain your thought process a bit more here Wids? I'm just not getting how you see it setting us back 5 years by full tank this season.
SKYO wrote: Not saying sell everyone, I'm saying if we only sell off Hansen, Miller, and one of Edler or Tanev we'd be fine next season, it's a good year to sell early, especially before anyone gets injured like Vrbata and Hamhuis did last year.

Having said that the only way to keep most of everyone is by making a good 'hockey deal' for a young center with good upside, yes even though JB keeps saying all summer and fall he wants a gritty top 6 winger.

Anyways seems the most logical deal to make right now is by targeting teams that are struggling and could really use one of Edler or Tanev, and with us having some depth on the right and to help fulfill our needs for a top 6, trading one of em for help up front seems the most logical.
Trade 2 max. Hansen has a role here and unless we are dealing him at the deadline or draft his departure hurts the development of the kids. If Bur is for sure gone next season then keep Hansen.

It would be foolish to trade one of our best defensive forwards, our starting goaltender, AND one of our top pairing blueliners in the same season. Trade Miller for a 1st rounder now. If you move Tanev, then get a good top-6 forward, make it a real hockey trade. If Edler will then go at the draft and there is a UFA replacement that may be available, then pull that trigger then.....maybe.
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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

I thought this was a "retool". :P
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO »

Mondi wrote:The Canucks have been screwed by a series of circumstances, some internal and some external.

All the top teams bottom out and get their superstar, it is the most well worn path to the Cup.

All the Juolevis, Virtanens, Horvats and Boesers in the world aren't going to make up for a McDavid, Eichel or Mathews. Best way is draft. Top 5 picks. No short cuts.
:thumbs:

Yeah this a great draft (2017) & time to get a Henrik replacement in N. Patrick.

As you said, all the best teams bottomed out and drafted a superstar to lead their future team, the Pens tanked and got Crosby, Lightning did for Lecavalier & Stamkos, Blackhawks for Toews/Kane.



The Twinsition plan.

I think all the Canucks fans from die hards to bandwagoner's are all on the same page now and see that this team isn't gonna retool well, time to do a proper rebuild and get a future #1C drafted.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

SKYO wrote:Even the JB haters admit he's a good draft guy
Even this is not yet proven. Benning's picks are intriguing, exciting, and mostly look good at this point in their development, but none are NHL All-Stars yet.
Mondi wrote:The Canucks have been screwed by a series of circumstances, some internal and some external.

The two biggest are the Virtanen draft pick...
Virtanen is, for example, a Jim Benning pick. Not that I'm giving up hope on him by any means -- if is oft repeated that power forwards take longer to develop, and he may yet be a dominant player -- but so far he hasn't shown what Canuck fans were hoping for. Personally, I am worried that his shoulder has not recovered as well as advertised. Josh Holden flashbacks with Brian Bosworth overtones.

I was with Strangelove in the "Yeah, but maybe in 2018 or 2019, when the plan comes to full fruition..." line of thinking (except, of course, that Doc would omit the qualifying "maybe"), but that scenario hinged on the (not completely implausible) premise that the Sedins would show Selänne/Jágr - like resistance to the effects of age. It might just be that too much is being asked of them at this point in their careers, but so far this season, it is looking like time is starting to overtake them.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Mickey107 »

I would be absolutely shocked if the Sedins are even remotely thinking about any NHL playing activities after these contracts are up.
Distinctly remember them saying a few years ago they didn't want to play late into their 30s.

I don't think it will happen but what if one or both of them just didn't want to play past this year.

All these "slowing down" comments all over the league, have to be playing games in their heads.

Pretty proud guys, hard to know what effect this is having...
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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Todd Bersnoozi »

Ronning's Ghost wrote: Virtanen is, for example, a Jim Benning pick. Not that I'm giving up hope on him by any means -- if is oft repeated that power forwards take longer to develop, and he may yet be a dominant player -- but so far he hasn't shown what Canuck fans were hoping for. Personally, I am worried that his shoulder has not recovered as well as advertised. Josh Holden flashbacks with Brian Bosworth overtones.
Mondi wrote:The Canucks have been screwed by a series of circumstances, some internal and some external.

The two biggest are the Virtanen draft pick, and losing this year's draft lottery. Another was having that aberrant 2015 season in the McDavid/Eichel draft year, which they luckily mitigated by taking Brock
I was happy we got Jake @ the time, although Ritchie was intriguing. It's still early to judge the Jake pick, but JB & Co. clearly mishandled him. He should have been sent back to juniors last season and he probably should be in Utica right now as well. The Rodin injury did kind of open a spot for him I guess. By giving Jake a spot too soon, he ended up losing out on some valuable development time, was put in situations where his body had to face tougher punishment (NHL lvl), which cannot be good for his shoulders and he seems to be a bit of a spoiled brat now, thinking he deserves to be in a top 6 role and seemingly not too thrilled with his Coach Willie D. Same thing happened with McCann as well. Why we rushed those 2 last season was beyond me.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Topper »

SKYO wrote:
Mondi wrote:The Canucks have been screwed by a series of circumstances, some internal and some external.

All the top teams bottom out and get their superstar, it is the most well worn path to the Cup.

All the Juolevis, Virtanens, Horvats and Boesers in the world aren't going to make up for a McDavid, Eichel or Mathews. Best way is draft. Top 5 picks. No short cuts.
:thumbs:

Yeah this a great draft (2017) & time to get a Henrik replacement in N. Patrick.

As you said, all the best teams bottomed out and drafted a superstar to lead their future team, the Pens tanked and got Crosby, Lightning did for Lecavalier & Stamkos, Blackhawks for Toews/Kane.



The Twinsition plan.

I think all the Canucks fans from die hards to bandwagoner's are all on the same page now and see that this team isn't gonna retool well, time to do a proper rebuild and get a future #1C drafted.
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I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO »

Topper wrote:nhl lotto
What other choice is there to get a new #1 line?

The Sedins got a year left max, then we are left with Sutter, Horvat and Granlund as our centers.

So unless we can trade for a S. Reinhart or D. Strome soon, our best bet for a prosperous future is getting a high draft choice.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Hockey Widow »

Mëds,

Blow this year, that's one year.

Drafted players on average take 2-4 years to make an impact.

Finish low this year, draft night. That's one player 2-4 years out.

Draft night again next year, that player is 2-4 years out.

Draft high again in 2019' that player is 2-4 years out.

That's three years of high drafting. Players in the system keep developing. So hopefully within 3 more years enough players currently in the stsytem are ready to make the new core. But our drafted players over the next three years still need to develop. Add two years of development. All told you are five years away from contending.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Meds »

Hockey Widow wrote:Mëds,

Blow this year, that's one year.

Drafted players on average take 2-4 years to make an impact.

Finish low this year, draft night. That's one player 2-4 years out.

Draft night again next year, that player is 2-4 years out.

Draft high again in 2019' that player is 2-4 years out.

That's three years of high drafting. Players in the system keep developing. So hopefully within 3 more years enough players currently in the stsytem are ready to make the new core. But our drafted players over the next three years still need to develop. Add two years of development. All told you are five years away from contending.
Gotcha.

I would rather be 5 years away from contending right now than 5 years away in another 2 years.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by vic »

Mondi wrote: McDavid-types seem to be once a decade kinds of guy.
Anyone think McDavid enters RFA to see what type of offer sheets are presented or does he simply re-sign in EDM before that?

Two years from now if/when he is RFA eligible, Canucks have $21 million coming off the books, do you offer him the $15M max for 7 years forcing EDM to match and really screwing up their cap with guys like Draisaitl, Nurse, Talbot needing new contracts, Looch, Eberle and RNH are already at a combined $18M ... Draisaitl probably asks for 6, same with Talbot, Nurse maybe gets 5

Add in a few of their existing d men already signed long term and that puts then at about $65M cap hit with only 11 players signed - 5 forwards, 5 d men and a goalie...

Maybe they trade Eberle and RNH, but if the Finn turns out to be the real deal, they gotta sign him in two more years.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Hockey Widow »

Well Eberle is apparently on the block right now. Edmonton would like to add another top four on D and trade Eberle now. But Eberle is not producing and is horrible in the D zone. But hey, why not trade Tanev for Eberle.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Hockey Widow »

Our best shot at rebuilding was this past draft and the hockey gawds screwed us over dropping us to 5th. If we could have held onto 1-4 we would have been able to fill a huge need.

I won't argue that another 1-2 high draft picks would help in a big way but it ain't gonna come by deliberate action. Keep in mind that Las Vegas gets into the lottery draft next year to boot. Tanking last year got us number 5 not number 1. Why hope/wish for a different result? You cannot count on getting a favourable draft position. Ask Buffalo, they got screwed out of McDavid, although Eichel was not a bad consolation prize.

My hope is Benning learned from last year. If we are really as bad as these last six losses suggest I hope he pulls the trigger as earl as he can on trading Burrows. We are short on RH D so I'd rather he trade Edler but I agree one of them should go for a healthy return.

Get Sbisa and Biega their required games and trade one of them as well. Other than that there is not much he can do with what's left.

I fear though that he will overtrade to land a top six. I don't advocate a deliberate tank but I would like to see the bandage ripped off at this point.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO »

Hockey Widow wrote:Well Eberle is apparently on the block right now. Edmonton would like to add another top four on D and trade Eberle now. But Eberle is not producing and is horrible in the D zone. But hey, why not trade Tanev for Eberle.
My masterplan of rebuilding I foresee that we will need a top LW that's 6'2 with the strength of Samson.

IF we can tank properly like the Pittsburgh Penguins did for Crosby-Malkin, Lightning for Lecavalier/Stamkos, Blackhawks for Toews/Kane, Edmonton for McDavid, leaves for Matthews, Vancouver Canucks for Patrick? why not us?

I'd suggest trading Tanev + Hansen for a younger big LW.

When Sedins retire.

(big guy LW) - (new #1C) - Boeser
Eriksson - Horvat - Virtanen
Baertschi - Sutter - Rodin
LaBate - Gaunce - Dorsett

Now that I can live with for sure.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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