The Rebuild...

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Cherry Picker
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cherry Picker » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:38 pm

I think Gaudette’s defense keeps him on the team this year. Defensively the centre ice position is very solid. If everything works out Gaudette could be the third line centre for many years.

Centre depth this year.
Horvat
Sutter
Gaudette
Beagle

Centre depth in a year or two:
Pettersson
Horvat
Gaudette
Beagle
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Madcombinepilot
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Madcombinepilot » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:00 am
Madcombinepilot wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:52 am
so, a couple of us were chatting in the office about Karlson, and how Ottawa wanted to get rid of Ryan's contract at the same time. In all honesty, we don't want Ryan right now ( no roster space), so 2 questions:

Can a team trade salary? (Could Ottawa trade us Karlson and 3 million of Ryan's Salary?)

Or, would the league approve a Karlson and Ryan trade for say (example) Tanev, Hutton and Gagne, then we trade Ryan back to Ottawa for like a 3rd and retain some of Ryan's salary?

I am pretty sure you can't add salary to a trade (example 1), but would the second option be approved by the league, or considered some kind of circumvention?
Salary (or portions of salary) cannot be traded.

Example 2 is also illegal:

(C) Under no circumstances may a Club:
(4) Reacquire as part of a Retained Salary Transaction the SPC of a Player who was on that Club's Reserve List within the past calendar year;
Illustration: If Club A Trades the SPC of a Player to Club B (the "Initial Trade"), Club B cannot subsequently Trade an SPC of such Player back to Club A within one (1) calendar year from the date of the Initial Trade and retain a portion of the Averaged Amount of that SPC pursuant to a Retained Salary Transaction. However, Club B may Trade an SPC of the Player back to Club A within one (1) calendar year from the date of the Initial Trade if Club B does not retain any portion of such Player's SPC.


Back to the drawing board with you and your coworkers!
Thanks Doc.

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Cherry Picker
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cherry Picker » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:01 am

The following is just my opinion, and I’ll be interested in your disagreements. I think if the Canucks management were a bit more ruthless, like Burke or Keenan could be, they would waive people more readily. In my opinion, here are the assets that other teams would not take and could get through waivers at the beginning of the year when other teams are still assessing their prospects:

Gagner
Eriksson
Gaunce
Goldobin
Leipsic
Archibald
Nilsson

Later in the year when other teams have injuries piling up, they might get claimed. At the beginning of the year, they probably have no trade value, so if Benning can trade one for a late pick, it should be considered a bonus. One possible criticism of Benning and Linden is I don’t know if they are ruthless enough to waive veterans with big contracts like Gagner and Eriksson if they get beat out for jobs by the younger players like Gaudette and Dahlen.

These following players have a 50/50 chance of getting claimed if exposed to waivers:

Beagle
Granlund
Pouliot
Del Zotto
Hutton
Sautner

They may have some trade value. The number of players on the team needs to be thinned out before the season starts and hopefully some of these ones return some 3rd and 4th round draft picks if they are moved. I’m not sure how much value they hold to other GMs.

Here are the players that may get a shot on the team, but don’t need to clear waivers:

Pettersson
Gaudette
Hughes
Juolevi
Demko
Dahlen
Lind
Motte
Palmu
Gadjovich
Jasek

Most should be kept for the rebuild. Most of these should only be traded for a very rich return. In theory they could be bounced up and down to Utica (except Motte who loses his waiver exempt status if he plays another NHL game) which is something a more ruthless GM might do. But in reality the top three have a good shot to stay with the team all year.

Which leaves these players who would likely get claimed if exposed to waivers:

Baertschi
Horvat
Boeser
Sutter
Roussel
Virtanen
Schaller
Edler
Tanev
Gudbranson
Stecher
Markstrom

Some are core, some are place holders, but all should return something decent if traded. Benning shouldn’t trade most of these for prospects or picks until the trade deadline if the Canucks fall out of the playoffs.
Last edited by Cherry Picker on Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Reefer2 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:22 am

CP, I agree, I do think the management team needs to be more aggressive in moving players at the right time. Not going to rehash the NTC or other clauses, players have been moved in the past and will be moved again in the future.

I believe Gagner will be picked up, still can get 30+ points on the Canucks so on another less goal starved team he would do better.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Or the team could be all fuck the injuries*-bring em on! we get depth for days. (*Canucks led the league the past 3 years or is near the top in man-games lost due to injury), might be best to have 2 or 3 centers on wing, so if one of the key cogs Horvat or Sutter go down, we'd have some capable fill-ins. Schaller and Pettersson can play center for instance.

baertschi horvat boeser
eriksson sutter pettersson
goldy gagner virtanen
roussel beagle schaller
leipsic gaunce granlund
dahlen gaudette archibald
gadjovich macewen lind
palmu carcone boucher
jasek motte kero

edler stecher
mdz tanev
hutton gudbranson
pouliot biega
juolevi sautner
brisebois chatfield

markstrom
nilsson
demko
bachman

And if the mighty Quinn signs, our defense on the left will have way too many one-way contracts, gotta trade, team has 3 months about to make some moves before the start of the 2018/19 season begins.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:37 am

A view from the outside:

youtube.com/watch?v=coJ6HFj_iic

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Cherry Picker
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cherry Picker » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:43 am

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:37 am
A view from the outside:

youtube.com/watch?v=coJ6HFj_iic

The Hockey Guy
Like that THG has Pettersson in the middle right off the bat. THG’s line-up has a few issues. Roussel and Juolevi are on the wrong sides. His left side of Baertschi, Eriksson, Gagner, Schaller should probably be Baertschi, Eriksson, Roussel, Schaller. But either way, it is still the weakest area of the team. It will be interesting to see how close Dahlen or Gadjovick are to stealing a job on the LW. If players like Gaunce, Archibald, Leipsic, Goldobin are going to make any noise, they’ll likely have to win a job on the LW, too. Should be an interesting position to watch during the pre-season.
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SKYO
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:41 pm

In the perfect world Pettersson would start on the 3rd line center spot, just like other high end center prospects like Nolan Patrick for example.

Flyers October lineup: Patrick and his winger Konecny started on the 3rd line.

28 Claude Giroux | 14 Sean Couturier | 93 Jakub Voracek
40 Jordan Weal/Lehterä | 51 Valtteri Filppula | 17 Wayne Simmonds
22 Dale Weise | 19 Nolan Patrick | 11 Travis Konecny
20 Taylor Leier | 21 Scott Laughton | 12 Michael Raffl

And then by April, playoffs, Patrick and Konecny got to 2nd line status.

28 Claude Giroux - 51 Valtteri Filppula - 93 Jakub Voracek
12 Michael Raffl - 19 Nolan Patrick - 11 Travis Konecny
21 Scott Laughton - 14 Sean Couturier - 17 Wayne Simmonds
24 Matt Read - 15 Jori Lehtera - 22 Dale Weise

I'd prefer our version of Patrick-Konecny to be Dahlen-Pettersson, start em on the 3rd line with a tough winger like maybe Schaller to be the defensive guy, and let those two score.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Richardstroker69 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:07 pm

Who here thinks it’s a good thing we actually have enough decent young players that it’s possible we may lose some for nothing on waivers? I’m loving it.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Strangelove » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:13 pm

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:07 pm
Who here thinks it’s a good thing we actually have enough decent young players that it’s possible we may lose some for nothing on waivers? I’m loving it.
YUP... a good thing.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cherry Picker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am

So next summer all the current left-sided defensemen need new contracts: Edler (UFA), Del Zotto (UFA), Hutton (RFA) and Pouliot (RFA). While the right side of the defense is very shallow as far as prospects are concerned, the left side of the defense is the deepest area for Canuck prospects. By next summer they could possibly have any of Hughes, Juolevi, Sautner, Brisebois, McEneney, Brassard, Tryamkin, Rathbone, and Utunen signed and available.

So the question is, should the Canucks resign any of the current defensemen? If so who? I’m kind of thinking not re-signing anyone might be best way to create room for the up and coming players who have more potential. I could imagine Edler being asked to resign, but only for a short-term contract. But I doubt he’d want to resign for anything less than 4 years. The others may not have much upside and could forseeably be moved out.

So the next question is, if they do not plan to resign any of the current four defensemen can they afford to waive Sautner, who needs to clear waivers, this year? Sautner played adequately down the stretch as a 6th Dman. Though it is unlikely, it is possible he might be taken by another team if he is waived. Also shouldn’t the team be trying to get more young guys experience at the NHL level before all the veterans are gone. Shouldn’t the Canucks get at least one or two defenseman a full years experience while they are surrounded by vets if they are turning over the left-side of the defense in the next twelve months?
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:58 am

Richardstroker69 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:07 pm
Who here thinks it’s a good thing we actually have enough decent young players that it’s possible we may lose some for nothing on waivers? I’m loving it.
I don’t see any decent young players being lost on waivers
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by ESQ » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:58 am
Richardstroker69 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:07 pm
Who here thinks it’s a good thing we actually have enough decent young players that it’s possible we may lose some for nothing on waivers? I’m loving it.
I don’t see any decent young players being lost on waivers
I would take a Frankie Corrado as the high-point of players lost on waivers. Not good enough for the Canucks, not good enough for the Leaves, but juuuust enough potential that the Leaves didn't want to expose him again.

Hutton and Stecher's contracts probably keep them from being claimed. Biega's contract probably guarantees he gets claimed.

Leipsic and Goldy are young enough and have shown enough potential that they likely get claimed. Jake would definitely be claimed. Boeser obviously. When Tryamkin returns, he obviously would be claimed.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Madcombinepilot » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:34 am

Biega's contract probably guarantees he gets claimed.
I disagree. What team grabs a #8 defenceman that they will 100% guarantee to pay close to a million a year to play in the AHL? its a 1 way contract. every team has a guy (or 2) in this position that nobody else will claim. I think Biega's contract ensures he clears waivers.

Only reason Biega would ever get picked up is because some other team thinks that at 875k (or whatever he makes) is a good deal.. its not a 'good deal'. its what a #8 defenceman gets paid in the NHL. this makes it an average deal that every other team already has, or can sign anywhere.

I guess if another team feels Biega is a #5 or 6 Dman, then he would get picked up..
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by micky107 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:46 am

Cherry Picker wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:39 am
So next summer all the current left-sided defensemen need new contracts: Edler (UFA), Del Zotto (UFA), Hutton (RFA) and Pouliot (RFA). While the right side of the defense is very shallow as far as prospects are concerned, the left side of the defense is the deepest area for Canuck prospects. By next summer they could possibly have any of Hughes, Juolevi, Sautner, Brisebois, McEneney, Brassard, Tryamkin, Rathbone, and Utunen signed and available.

So the question is, should the Canucks resign any of the current defensemen? If so who? I’m kind of thinking not re-signing anyone might be best way to create room for the up and coming players who have more potential. I could imagine Edler being asked to resign, but only for a short-term contract. But I doubt he’d want to resign for anything less than 4 years. The others may not have much upside and could forseeably be moved out.

So the next question is, if they do not plan to resign any of the current four defensemen can they afford to waive Sautner, who needs to clear waivers, this year? Sautner played adequately down the stretch as a 6th Dman. Though it is unlikely, it is possible he might be taken by another team if he is waived. Also shouldn’t the team be trying to get more young guys experience at the NHL level before all the veterans are gone. Shouldn’t the Canucks get at least one or two defenseman a full years experience while they are surrounded by vets if they are turning over the left-side of the defense in the next twelve months?
Information has been sketchy at best in regards to the progress of Juolevi. A young man who, with the temporary departure of Hughes, will
have all eyes on him in camp. All of a sudden, it's a big deal!
He absolutely must know that now.
If we see anything less than an all out, give it shit, effort to make the club, it will be a disappointment, no?
"evolution"

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