Canucks Young Guns

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by rats19 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:09 pm

10lbs is what ... 7.5% he should be able to gain it absorb it and excel with it
Getting old is not for the young...

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Hank » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:27 pm

rats19 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:09 pm
10lbs is what ... 7.5% he should be able to gain it absorb it and Excel with it
Word.
Try to focus on THIS year...

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by sagebrush » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:41 pm

It could take Pettersson some time to put on fast twitch muscle in a manner that retains coordination & skills. So be it. Hockey skills trump weight gain & strength.

If getting beat up on the ice is the only thing preventing his playng in the NHL, give him an on ice guardian. Cliff Ronning played at 170lbs in a tougher NHL era.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Meds » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:30 pm

sagebrush wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:41 pm
It could take Pettersson some time to put on fast twitch muscle in a manner that retains coordination & skills. So be it. Hockey skills trump weight gain & strength.

If getting beat up on the ice is the only thing preventing his playng in the NHL, give him an on ice guardian. Cliff Ronning played at 170lbs in a tougher NHL era.
Tougher, yes. But the guys that took liberties with opposing stars ended up paying for it. Brad Marchand would have been in a hospital bed eating through a straw at least a few times already.

Now things have changed. The game is softer, the bodyguards are gone, and the league protects the scum rather than police them like they claim they will.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by sagebrush » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:14 pm

^^^

It's true that the days of the full time NHL goon are gone. You must have NHL skating & some skill.

NHL deterrence still exists. Teammates play bigger when they have back up. Hence, we signed Guddy, but Guddy can't play along side our skilled forwards. We may need a forward who can provide some intimidation. Someone reasonably physical, who makes a habit of getting in opposing players faces. Burkey calls it truculence. Benning references meat & potatoes. Archibald is a candidate, if he's willing to be more physical & assertive. You can't eliminate hits one your skill guys, but deterrence reduces them.

Marchand is a cheap shot opportunist, not someone who makes a point of running over players of small stature. Dealing with Marchand requires being aware of where he is, & (hopefully) getting licks in when you can. Similar to the awareness that Marchment required, only Marchand has less guts to back it up face to face.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by DHA » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 pm
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:27 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:39 pm
mr perfect wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:47 am
I don't know when the SHL completes their playoffs but if Pettersson gets most of the month of April off then all of May, June, July and August to train properly then he should be able to put on 10 lb by training camp. With today's proper nutrition programs and complete weight training regiment a young man can put on up to 25 lb of lean tissue and mass in one year. Anything outside of that is usually enhanced by Vitamin S if you know what I mean.
So as per Per, April may or may not be available. Even allowing for all of April, and going with your numbers, this projection assumes no lag phase in that year, i.e. linear growth from the first month. I must also draw attention to the important qualifier "up to". Pettersson strikes me as likely to be what bodybuilders call a "hard gainer", as SKYO suggests. (all projectionss assume the latest in training techniques, but avoiding aggressive "supplementation" programs.)

Even if 10 pounds of lean mass were possible, there's also the fact that you still want him to be good at hockey when he's done with this phase. Five months of intense focus on anabolism with likely leave him with reduced aerobic capacity relative to his newly acquired ability to burn fuel in his larger displacement engine (ie. under carburetored, i.e. unable to play a regular-length shift). He'd also need time to recalibrate his highly skill-based moves to match his new mass and strength. We've seen players who were out of sorts after an off-season of focusing on strength training before.

As badly as the organization needs help and the fans need something to get excited about, I would be very surprised if Pettersson can be physically ready to contribute to the Canucks for the 2018-2019 season. If he can be ready for 2019-2020, that's still in time for the last year of Strangelove's oft-repeat time period to...to...ah, to have people on this message board "talking about how far Canucks will go in the next playoffs".
(viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11200&hilit=what+ha ... +2+3+years)
Wow, even if 10 lbs of lean mass was possible?! Ha ha and then he could not be a good hockey player cause he gained 10lbs. Are you for real? Talk to Mike Bernstein, Ian Ghallager or Aaron Klatt at Twist and this can be done in 3 months. While still improving in all these areas...
To clarify, my point was that it would take him time to adjust to rapid changes in his body. I think posters here are just about unanimous is hoping that he gains more than 10 pounds before he stops growing.

I must allow that it is at least possible that such substantial gains have been made in conditioning methods since I was young that what you describe can be done in the amount of time that you say that it can. The way you present the assertion implies that it is made, or at least backed up, by the people you listed. Is there a link where we can read that ?
Thank you Ronning's Ghost - there is no link however if you need some phone numbers of the guy's Listed it's no problem - PM me or look them up and ask them this simple question " Can they gain 10lbs and still be NHL ready". I've seen the work these professionals have done. Rhasmussen worked with Hebert in Richmond and put on over 15 lbs this summer. He was running stairs in Tsawassen to the beach and getting his ass kicked in the gym this summer along with Kesler, Bieska and Garrison.....he actually did not need to gain much. The other trainers I mentioned do the same thing. NHL players get beat down and lose muscle mass over the season and build it up over the off season. 10lbs is not much to gain and lose during the season. Especially if you are 6'2" like Elias. He has to absolutely gain at least 10 lbs at 6' 2" because he can expect to lose 7-10 lbs if he plays in the top 6 next year based on his 165 he can push past 10lbs. 10Lbs in your words "rapid change" - no that is not rapid change -unless you are 4' 2''. 10lbs on a 6'2 person is almost nothing if they are training at the same time to maximize all areas and have a proper diet program.. Players are not aerobic as you suggest training above, they are anaerobic and train for power bursts and sustaining cardio up to 50 seconds. Players like Elias have to learn to eat more calories at this stage of their life but the right type at the right time during the day combined with a program unique to them. This is normal Elias is not different from alot of 19 year olds. kids his age. Your daft if you believe he has not been advised to get stronger and increase weight this off season. By the time this Tank is done the pressure will be huge and he will get the best people at his side to help him get there.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:13 pm

Do you follow these people around and watch them work out ?

I can see DHA offering to spot for the kids while they’re doing squats :lol:
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:38 pm

DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 pm

To clarify, my point was that it would take him time to adjust to rapid changes in his body. I think posters here are just about unanimous is hoping that he gains more than 10 pounds before he stops growing.

I must allow that it is at least possible that such substantial gains have been made in conditioning methods since I was young that what you describe can be done in the amount of time that you say that it can. The way you present the assertion implies that it is made, or at least backed up, by the people you listed. Is there a link where we can read that ?
Thank you Ronning's Ghost - there is no link however if you need some phone numbers of the guy's Listed it's no problem - PM me or look them up and ask them this simple question " Can they gain 10lbs and still be NHL ready".
Your plan is for me to phone a professional trainer and say "I'm having an argument on a hockey fan board about what can be accomplished in off-season training...." ? Yeah, no.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying that's not the way to prove you are right in a forum like this.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
I've seen the work these professionals have done. Rhasmussen worked with Hebert in Richmond and put on over 15 lbs this summer.
He was running stairs in Tsawassen to the beach and getting his ass kicked in the gym this summer along with Kesler, Bieska and Garrison.....he actually did not need to gain much.
You are right: Rhasmussen (assuming we're talking about Michael from Surrey) did not need to gain much, but as a much bigger kid to start with 15 lbs. isn't as much for him. And we're talking specifically about Pettersson, who has the kind of build that make me suspect he'd have more trouble with muscle gain.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10lbs is not much to gain and lose during the season.
I can gain or lose 10 pounds in a weekend, but we were talking about lean muscle mass, and adding 10 pounds of muscle mass in 5 months was a big ask when I was Pettersson's age (and it seemed like my blood was 4% testosterone by volume).
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10Lbs in your words "rapid change" - no that is not rapid change -unless you are 4' 2''.
Bigger men have gained or lost that in a off-season (in a variety of sports) and claimed it affected their games.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10lbs on a 6'2 person is almost nothing if they are training at the same time to maximize all areas and have a proper diet program.
See I was assuming that to gain the 10 pounds, the training would have be focusing primarily on anabolism and the other aspects would have to suffer. You are now asserting that huge gains can be made in all areas in the same 5 months. As I conceded, training could be better now -- well, I'm certain it's better now -- but I'd still be surprised by those kinds of results.

No sense arguing about facts in the age of the internet. I am sure you are right when you say that he has been advised to get bigger and stronger and will have the best possible help. We'll get to see what actually happens. (Well, we might. Or the Canucks might decide that Pettersson's weight and body composition results are not for public consumption. I've often lamented that the results of pre-season fitness testing are not made public. We'll probably at least see photos, anyway.)
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Players are not aerobic as you suggest training above, they are anaerobic and train for power bursts and sustaining cardio up to 50 seconds.
You caught me. I was trying to avoid delving into all the relevant physiological processes and used 'aerobic capacity' as a lazy and inaccurate shorthand. Probably better to have said 'energy systems'.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Players like Elias have to learn to eat more calories at this stage of their life but the right type at the right time during the day combined with a program unique to them.
Maybe a custom program with a custom diet will make the difference. If he's physically ready for the NHL game in October, great. But even with your heads up, I will be surprised if that happens.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by micky107 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:27 am

Actually, it's all irrelevant. We just have to keep him in Vancouver long enough to smell all the weed, get the munchies and eat everything in sight.
Like that guy that was supposed to be more talented than Larianov. Krutov, Kruton, whatever his name was. You know, the guy that single handed saved the MacDonald's franchise.
Or we could just find Kyle Wellwood as a personal trainer?
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by CrzyCanuck » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 am

micky107 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:27 am
Actually, it's all irrelevant. We just have to keep him in Vancouver long enough to smell all the weed, get the munchies and eat everything in sight.
Like that guy that was supposed to be more talented than Larianov. Krutov, Kruton, whatever his name was. You know, the guy that single handed saved the MacDonald's franchise.
Or we could just find Kyle Wellwood as a personal trainer?
Get Brady Tkachuk + his dad the nutritionist
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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by DHA » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:48 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:13 pm
Do you follow these people around and watch them work out ?

I can see DHA offering to spot for the kids while they’re doing squats :lol:
My kid plays in the Dub and works out with these guys in off season. Their goals/times and such are posted on a whiteboard in the gym so you can see there progress and it also creates inner competition with the different groups. One kid who plays for Spokane had more leg strength the 4 pros training there this past summer.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by DHA » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:52 am

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:38 pm
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:50 pm

To clarify, my point was that it would take him time to adjust to rapid changes in his body. I think posters here are just about unanimous is hoping that he gains more than 10 pounds before he stops growing.

I must allow that it is at least possible that such substantial gains have been made in conditioning methods since I was young that what you describe can be done in the amount of time that you say that it can. The way you present the assertion implies that it is made, or at least backed up, by the people you listed. Is there a link where we can read that ?
Thank you Ronning's Ghost - there is no link however if you need some phone numbers of the guy's Listed it's no problem - PM me or look them up and ask them this simple question " Can they gain 10lbs and still be NHL ready".
Your plan is for me to phone a professional trainer and say "I'm having an argument on a hockey fan board about what can be accomplished in off-season training...." ? Yeah, no.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm saying that's not the way to prove you are right in a forum like this.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
I've seen the work these professionals have done. Rhasmussen worked with Hebert in Richmond and put on over 15 lbs this summer.
He was running stairs in Tsawassen to the beach and getting his ass kicked in the gym this summer along with Kesler, Bieska and Garrison.....he actually did not need to gain much.
You are right: Rhasmussen (assuming we're talking about Michael from Surrey) did not need to gain much, but as a much bigger kid to start with 15 lbs. isn't as much for him. And we're talking specifically about Pettersson, who has the kind of build that make me suspect he'd have more trouble with muscle gain.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10lbs is not much to gain and lose during the season.
I can gain or lose 10 pounds in a weekend, but we were talking about lean muscle mass, and adding 10 pounds of muscle mass in 5 months was a big ask when I was Pettersson's age (and it seemed like my blood was 4% testosterone by volume).
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10Lbs in your words "rapid change" - no that is not rapid change -unless you are 4' 2''.
Bigger men have gained or lost that in a off-season (in a variety of sports) and claimed it affected their games.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
10lbs on a 6'2 person is almost nothing if they are training at the same time to maximize all areas and have a proper diet program.
See I was assuming that to gain the 10 pounds, the training would have be focusing primarily on anabolism and the other aspects would have to suffer. You are now asserting that huge gains can be made in all areas in the same 5 months. As I conceded, training could be better now -- well, I'm certain it's better now -- but I'd still be surprised by those kinds of results.

No sense arguing about facts in the age of the internet. I am sure you are right when you say that he has been advised to get bigger and stronger and will have the best possible help. We'll get to see what actually happens. (Well, we might. Or the Canucks might decide that Pettersson's weight and body composition results are not for public consumption. I've often lamented that the results of pre-season fitness testing are not made public. We'll probably at least see photos, anyway.)
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Players are not aerobic as you suggest training above, they are anaerobic and train for power bursts and sustaining cardio up to 50 seconds.
You caught me. I was trying to avoid delving into all the relevant physiological processes and used 'aerobic capacity' as a lazy and inaccurate shorthand. Probably better to have said 'energy systems'.
DHA wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm
Players like Elias have to learn to eat more calories at this stage of their life but the right type at the right time during the day combined with a program unique to them.
Maybe a custom program with a custom diet will make the difference. If he's physically ready for the NHL game in October, great. But even with your heads up, I will be surprised if that happens.
Good counters... Lee see how he comes to camp..before we type each other to death. Cheers RG.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Reefer2 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 am

It’s like watching a foreign movie with sub titles typed up by a ESL person.

For the rest of us I will interpetate.

Eat right, gain weight, keep speed and mobility

Fast

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Cherry Picker » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:16 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:05 am
It’s like watching a foreign movie with sub titles typed up by a ESL person.

For the rest of us I will interpetate.

Eat right, gain weight, keep speed and mobility

Fast
Thanks that clears everything up. I was having problem with that other stuff before your post.

Makes me glad we never drafted a Gretzky or Yserman. Them runts would never survive the NHL.
We are all Jim Benning.

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Re: Canucks Young Guns

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:49 am

Cherry Picker wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:16 am
Makes me glad we never drafted a Gretzky or Yserman. Them runts would never survive the NHL.
I have already commented on the unusual nature of Gretzky's career:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10968&p=299841&hili ... ky#p299841

Do you imagine those conditions will obtain for a Vancouver player ?

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