Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

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herb
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by herb » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:54 am

RoyalDude wrote:I don't mind Juolevi, defence is at an all time premium so it seems, and his IQ hockey sense and skating are off the charts and those type of D are in vogue for the way the game is played now, but when you are picking this high and your 1st line is 36 years old with maybe 2 years shelf life left one would think that drafting a forward would have been best. No offense to Horvat, Virtanen and Boeser but I am hard pressed to consider them elite 1st line talent. We just gutted the futures to get a 24 year old Gudbranson, throw in a 22 year old Hutton, 20 year old Tryamkin, Stecher, 25 year old Tanev and loads of hockey left in Edler I didn't think our D was in bad shape, but what the fuck do I know, eh? I do know that you can't find 1st line talent in free agency unless you want to buck up $10 million for a Stamkos nor trade for it unless you want to absolutely gut the farm and right now our farm is rather thin. 1st line elite talent is 9 times out of 10 drafted high by said team. I doubt we will be drafting this high again with this big push to make the playoffs. My two cents. I guess we gotta keep our fingers crossed that Horvat centering Boeser and Virtanen will turn into a quality first line after the twins are done. I just don't see the high end talent there. Not saying that Tkachuk is first line elite skill set, but the chances are decent that he will be. To be honest, Keller and Nylander may turn out to be better 1st line talent than Tkachuk. Tkachuks skating is a concern, especially since the game is about speed now. Some scouts felt that Nylander was extremely undervalued heading into the draft.
Pretty much how I feel, Dude. Edler, Tanev, Gud and Hutton all have lots of miles left in them. I didn't think our D was in bad a shape as most prognosticators.

I would have picked Tkachuk. We scored the second fewest goals last year. This organization desperately needs more offense.

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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by ClamRussel » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:57 am

Reefer2 wrote:Are you stupid Clam - great we have a #1 shut down D man but then I guess we will win every game 1 - 0.

A safe player like Hamhuis is easier to get and develop than a top 3 forward scoring player if you are developing through the draft. Hamhuis will not and cannot win a game or series by putting the team on his back.

I have already said that getting top 3 players in FA is sometimes easier than a top 2 defender so maybe Benning believe he can fill the gaps in FA by throwing money at specific players.
...ya, ok Reefer. Hamhuis wasn't just a shut-down D, he put up 25-35 pts regularly playing a responsible physical 2-way game. We'd most likely have won the Cup if he didn't get injured right away. Its not as easy to develop a player as effective as he was like you seem to think. Do you really think we could have drafted a forward who is going to win games or a series by putting an NHL team on his back? Tkachuk may have done it somewhat in the Memorial Cup but he wouldn't have had that success w/ a guy like Juolevi on the backend. If Juolevi puts up 30pts on average playing a responsible 2-way game like Hamhuis as our no 2 or 3 D then I think its a very good pick. You can win a Cup w/ Dmen like that, look what happened to us w/o Hamhuis.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Lancer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:00 pm

herb wrote:Juolevi sounds like a good pick. That's pretty exciting if he can play in Utica as early as next year (if he's ready).

My frustration is; after that absolutely horrid season, we got punted in the balls by the draft lottery. Instead of moving up to get one of those two potential super stars, we moved down to a spot where there is more question marks. Seeing everything work out pretty great for Toronto, Winnipeg and Edmonton was salt in the wound.

I was pretty excited with PL Dubois. Columbus going a bit off the board there was disappointing. It is going to be a hell of a lot harder to replace Hank than getting another T4D.

First line type players and #1D men are what you want to get with your high picks after awful seasons. I don't get the sense that we just drafted an Aaron Ekblad or anything, so I think this draft was a bit of a failure in that regard.

That being said, organizationally, we aren't so bad at wing. If Juolevi turns out to be a top pairing defender in the next few years, we'll all be laughing.

So, I'm not gutted, but this is certainly not how I dreamed things would end up draft-wise after that terrible season.
Couldn't have/didn't say it better myself. This draft was going to be salve for fans enduring a horrid season, this was more like vinegar.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by ClamRussel » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:03 pm

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I don't mind Juolevi, defence is at an all time premium so it seems, and his IQ hockey sense and skating are off the charts and those type of D are in vogue for the way the game is played now, but when you are picking this high and your 1st line is 36 years old with maybe 2 years shelf life left one would think that drafting a forward would have been best. No offense to Horvat, Virtanen and Boeser but I am hard pressed to consider them elite 1st line talent. We just gutted the futures to get a 24 year old Gudbranson, throw in a 22 year old Hutton, 20 year old Tryamkin, Stecher, 25 year old Tanev and loads of hockey left in Edler I didn't think our D was in bad shape, but what the fuck do I know, eh? I do know that you can't find 1st line talent in free agency unless you want to buck up $10 million for a Stamkos nor trade for it unless you want to absolutely gut the farm and right now our farm is rather thin. 1st line elite talent is 9 times out of 10 drafted high by said team. I doubt we will be drafting this high again with this big push to make the playoffs. My two cents. I guess we gotta keep our fingers crossed that Horvat centering Boeser and Virtanen will turn into a quality first line after the twins are done. I just don't see the high end talent there. Not saying that Tkachuk is first line elite skill set, but the chances are decent that he will be. To be honest, Keller and Nylander may turn out to be better 1st line talent than Tkachuk. Tkachuks skating is a concern, especially since the game is about speed now. Some scouts felt that Nylander was extremely undervalued heading into the draft.
Pretty much how I feel, Dude. Edler, Tanev, Gud and Hutton all have lots of miles left in them. I didn't think our D was in bad a shape as most prognosticators.

I would have picked Tkachuk. We scored the second fewest goals last year. This organization desperately needs more offense.
I would have preferred Tkachuk as well, the idea of having him w/ Virtanen & Boeser on our wings would bode very well for the future. Hopefully 2 of them would have turned into top line material. That said, perhaps there was something about Tkachuk that Benning saw as flawed. Certainly Juolevi isn't as flashy but is a very smart player w/o any glaring weakness. The thing is, if Juolevi is hitting his stride in 3 yrs, that would be very good timing as Edler will need replacing. Rather important piece of the puzzle.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Diehard1 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:08 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Benning, post round one interview.

Had Juolevi ranked 5th on their chart. Dubois 4th. Took PBA according to their rankings.

Was asked to comment on Columbus selecting Bubois. Said I don't comment on what other teams are doing.

Was asked to compare Taychook and why he passed on him. Benning said he doesn't comment on players on other teams. Then said Taychook had a great year and they debated but in the end believes you build from goal out and Juolevi was a higher need than a winger.

Was asked if he wanted more picks, ya duh stupid question eh. Benning chuckled and said well ya I'd like more picks. Went on to say that organizationally we don't have the assets to really trade for picks other than our future core, of which we gave up a couple of pieces to land Gudbranson. Said he felt we now have depth in all positions so that moving forward we can keep our picks and begin to add more. Wants to be like some of those teams that have a lot of picks so they can move up and down in the draft. Described that as fun.

No comment on the up coming FA period.

On where Juolevi plays next year. If he can add muscle and improve his strength he has a chance to play in the NHL but feels going back to London for at least a year is better for him. He spoke highly of the London program and said he has no problem with him returning there. Said much the same thing about Boeser returning to UND. Said another year at London can do Juolevi a lot of good. Just may not be ready to play against men yet. Speed, O, hockey IQ, he's ready for the NHL but his strength just isn't there. Said it depends upon the summer he puts in and how he shows at camp.
Aside from the 'no comment' on every other team - sounds like more of the same from Benning. He said last year that he wanted more picks, yet went and traded our 2nd, 4th, 5th this year and at least one pick for 2017 is already gone. Also did nothing to add at the deadline yet they are letting Hamhuis go to free agency - not smart.

The D looks pretty solid for the next number of years, and perhaps we've got 1 first line forward coming in Boeser. Virtanen maybe as well, we will see how he develops but it's not out of the question. A few 2nd line types in Horvat and Baertschi, and a few 3rd line types in Gaunce and Granlund. Maybe Rodin, Etem, Lockwood turn into something, who knows. Still need lots of work up front for the future even if everyone pans out.

The Juolevi pick I like, I expected Tkachuk but a top pairing D is worth more than a top 6 LW and I like the pick. Best dman in the draft - could be our Ekman-Larsson, Josi or Lindholm. Those guys are worth their weight in gold.

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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Hockey Widow » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:10 pm

I found it interesting when asked to compare Tkachuk to Juolevi with respect to their potential, Benning said ya Tkachuk had a good season. And maybe it was that simple. Benning assessed it as one good season and unsure if that translated into overall improvement. Whereas Juolevi has shown consistency with improvement. Benning called him the best 17 year D he ever saw at the world juniors. High praise.

He had Tkachuck ranked 6th. Not a hell of a lot of difference when you are not talk about generational or franchise players.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Diehard1 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:20 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I found it interesting when asked to compare Tkachuk to Juolevi with respect to their potential, Benning said ya Tkachuk had a good season. And maybe it was that simple. Benning assessed it as one good season and unsure if that translated into overall improvement. Whereas Juolevi has shown consistency with improvement. Benning called him the best 17 year D he ever saw at the world juniors. High praise.

He had Tkachuck ranked 6th. Not a hell of a lot of difference when you are not talk about generational or franchise players.
Agreed - not a hell of a lot of difference but that's what happens from 5 to 6. The thing that sticks with me is Juolevi was easily the best dman on the team, not close. Tkachuk was the 3rd best forward in his team, likely on his line as well. Who knows what he does away from Marner and Dvorak. Juolevi is more of a known quantity because of that.

Just wait until the kid puts in 30 pounds - he's 185 now at 6'2" or 6'3", should play at well over 200 pounds. With his skating ability and hockey sense he will be a very solid dman.

The rest of the draft I don't like much, but I have no problem with this pick.

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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by ClamRussel » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:24 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Benning called him the best 17 year D he ever saw at the world juniors. High praise.
His performance there was extremely rare for a 17 yr old D, the pick is really growing on me.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Chef Boi RD » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Benning called him the best 17 year D he ever saw at the world juniors. High praise.
His performance there was extremely rare for a 17 yr old D, the pick is really growing on me.
I gotta admit I was really impressed with him at the juniors, especially for a 17 year old in a 19 year old tournament. His speed and calmness with the puck at a high tempo was impressive. Decision making is through the roof as well. Also noticed his head was always up and on a swivel when he was handling the puck.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:07 pm

He scored 72 points in 86 games of junior this year ( WJC and playoffs, Mem cup) and was a + 65. I liked the look of him in both of those tournaments. Very good skater with a good first pass. I guess I would have felt a bit more at ease if Walt Jr went to Phoenix. I hate Calgary with a passion and I think he is going to be a pain in our asses for years to come.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Aaronp18 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:12 pm

Offence starts with the defence, and it's exactly the problem we've had for many years.

Guys that can move the puck up to our forwards, join in the rush and get back and play their position are worth their weight in gold because they create offence. They make the forwards jobs substantially easier.

Not too mention someone that can legitimately run a PP from the point is sorely needed.

This is how we add team scoring, not one guy that can score and additional 30 goals but a defence that can spread scoring around and help 4 guys score 20 goals.

This pick could be huge for the team, he could be what Karlsson is for the Sens but better defensively. Our dmen need to be the smartest players on the ice, and from what I've read this kids hockey IQ is one of his biggest attributes.

I'm excited to see how he develops!

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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:54 pm

RoyalDude wrote: Really curious how we find a first line after the Sedins retire in what, 2 years?
Boeser - Horvat - Virtanen

(Lucic - Sutter - Okposo = 2nd line)
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:57 pm

Lancer wrote: Jesus Fuck.... a guy can't vent about a dubious pick without having his fan loyalty questioned? Where have you been during the Blobber-IN 'We Hate Benning' felch-fest?
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:06 pm

Reefer2 wrote: If he turns out to be another Hamhuis then this was a really bad pick.
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Re: Canuck select Olli Juolevi - #5 pick

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:10 pm

ClamRussel wrote: ...ya, ok Reefer. Hamhuis wasn't just a shut-down D, he put up 25-35 pts regularly playing a responsible physical 2-way game.
Yup.
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