N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

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Mickey107
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Mickey107 »

Mëds wrote:The offside challenge is getting old.

I suggest limiting the time frame for a coach to make the challenge.....to like 10 seconds. Especially in cases like the 3-0 goal tonight in New York. Off-side happens and play carries on for several seconds before the goal, it wasn't like a stretch pass or something off the rush where the scoring opportunity comes less than 2 seconds after the infraction.

The reaction from the Isles bench it was pretty clear that nobody there saw the offside, that came down from upstairs. I don't think spotters should be calling down. If a bench thinks that a goal should be called back due to a missed call then that should happen immediately, I would expect the same reaction as you see on a goalie interference situation or blown penalty call. It is right away.
Ya, it's starting to resemble Baseball and that's frustrating.
Also; What happened to the quick puck drop rule?
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Aaronp18 »

Mëds wrote:The offside challenge is getting old.

I suggest limiting the time frame for a coach to make the challenge.....to like 10 seconds. Especially in cases like the 3-0 goal tonight in New York. Off-side happens and play carries on for several seconds before the goal, it wasn't like a stretch pass or something off the rush where the scoring opportunity comes less than 2 seconds after the infraction.

The reaction from the Isles bench it was pretty clear that nobody there saw the offside, that came down from upstairs. I don't think spotters should be calling down. If a bench thinks that a goal should be called back due to a missed call then that should happen immediately, I would expect the same reaction as you see on a goalie interference situation or blown penalty call. It is right away.
I disagree, if it's offside then it's offside. If the puck doesn't come outside the zone at all before the goal is scored that goal is a result of a missed offside call, plain and simple.

It shouldn't matter how much time has passed, only if the goal occurred as a result of the missed offside.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Meds »

Aaronp18 wrote:
Mëds wrote:The offside challenge is getting old.

I suggest limiting the time frame for a coach to make the challenge.....to like 10 seconds. Especially in cases like the 3-0 goal tonight in New York. Off-side happens and play carries on for several seconds before the goal, it wasn't like a stretch pass or something off the rush where the scoring opportunity comes less than 2 seconds after the infraction.

The reaction from the Isles bench it was pretty clear that nobody there saw the offside, that came down from upstairs. I don't think spotters should be calling down. If a bench thinks that a goal should be called back due to a missed call then that should happen immediately, I would expect the same reaction as you see on a goalie interference situation or blown penalty call. It is right away.
I disagree, if it's offside then it's offside. If the puck doesn't come outside the zone at all before the goal is scored that goal is a result of a missed offside call, plain and simple.

It shouldn't matter how much time has passed, only if the goal occurred as a result of the missed offside.
That logic should apply to EVERY missed call then. Penalties, goalie interference, hand passes, contacting the puck with a high-stick 3 minutes before.

I'm not denying that what you're saying makes sense, but the way things are getting slowed down, and the way so many reviews are getting bungled over the last year, it's pretty stupid.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by vic »

Aaronp18 wrote:
I disagree, if it's offside then it's offside. If the puck doesn't come outside the zone at all before the goal is scored that goal is a result of a missed offside call, plain and simple.

It shouldn't matter how much time has passed, only if the goal occurred as a result of the missed offside.
yeah, I was thinking the same thing - if the last entry into the zone is reviewed and offside, it's no goal.

Scenario A:
If the attacking team enters the zone and it's a missed offside call, the puck is cleared and then immediately brought back in and it's not offside, any goal scored is good.

Scenario B:
If the attacking team enters the zone and it's a missed offside call, the puck is cleared, and a defender on the attacking team Lidstroms a Cloutier, it's no good (the last entry in the zone was offside)
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Puck »

I don't think offside should be open to review. It's just part of the game. Let the linesmen make the call and live with it.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Aaronp18 »

Mëds wrote: That logic should apply to EVERY missed call then. Penalties, goalie interference, hand passes, contacting the puck with a high-stick 3 minutes before.

I'm not denying that what you're saying makes sense, but the way things are getting slowed down, and the way so many reviews are getting bungled over the last year, it's pretty stupid.
Penalties are subject to interpretation, and we know that. It's not black and white. Same with goalie interference, and if the goalie is interfered with and there's no goal the play hasn't directly resulted in a goal.

I think the process needs to be sped up for sure. The play should be reviewed by off ice officials immediately, the ruling can be passed on to on ice officials quickly.

Really with the right cameras off-side shouldn't take any longer than determining if the puck crossed the line.

Maybe take the coaches decision out of it. On close entries into the zone the play is reviewed in the booth as play is still going on, if it results in a goal before the puck comes back out or a whistle then that is relayed to the on ice officials and it's no goal. You can't tell me the NHL doesn't have the technology or staff to handle that!
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Mickey107 »

You know that the official's assoc. is going to buck losing as much control as what's being talked about.
Also; The definition of offside has changed to the point that if the tip of your toe is inside the line but the puck is 3 feet behind you, it's good.
Not in my day it wasn't. The puck had to precede the player/players.
Until this is defined better, I don't see how to improve the situation, with or without cameras
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Meds »

Aaronp18 wrote:
Mëds wrote: That logic should apply to EVERY missed call then. Penalties, goalie interference, hand passes, contacting the puck with a high-stick 3 minutes before.

I'm not denying that what you're saying makes sense, but the way things are getting slowed down, and the way so many reviews are getting bungled over the last year, it's pretty stupid.
Penalties are subject to interpretation, and we know that. It's not black and white. Same with goalie interference, and if the goalie is interfered with and there's no goal the play hasn't directly resulted in a goal.

I think the process needs to be sped up for sure. The play should be reviewed by off ice officials immediately, the ruling can be passed on to on ice officials quickly.

Really with the right cameras off-side shouldn't take any longer than determining if the puck crossed the line.

Maybe take the coaches decision out of it. On close entries into the zone the play is reviewed in the booth as play is still going on, if it results in a goal before the puck comes back out or a whistle then that is relayed to the on ice officials and it's no goal. You can't tell me the NHL doesn't have the technology or staff to handle that!
That I agree with for sure.

I have actually argued for having an off-ice official who is in instant communication with the on-ice zebras. There is so much that gets missed, and so many things now where players just can't seem to control themselves behind the play, that there needs to be something put in place, and I don't think it would slow the game down for very long. Maybe the first 2 months of a season until the players got the message. If the off-ice guy see's something give him a time frame, say 30 seconds, for him to quickly review and simply talk into a mic that tells the lead on-ice referee to raise his hand indicating a delayed penalty against the offending team, or blow it dead if that team has possession.

Anything like your obstruction or tripping etc, he doesn't call that shit behind the play unless it could have an impact on a goal or something. Just the stupid shit that needs to come out of the game.

Like you said, the technology is there.

I also want to see some really stiff penalties/fines/whatever for the head-snap to draw a high-sticking penalty. I think any player who gets busted trying to sell that when there is clearly NO CONTACT made on the review should get a double-minor and if he continues start handing out fines. And to clarify, I don't just mean the head snap, that is reflex when an object comes flying towards your face, I am talking about the selling of the call afterwards where they grab their face and go into an academy award winning performance.

When you think about it, from the time the arm goes up, to the time the player is in the box and play has resumed, we have already seen the replay on our TV at home at least twice. So it wouldn't slow the game down at all if an off-ice official simply looked at it immediately. All you're looking for is contact, and I would say that 80-90 percent of the time it is very obvious. So in any event, reverse the call immediately and give the player 2 for embellishment and 2 for unsportsmanlike conduct. It would clean up in a HURRY!
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by JMoose »

micky107 wrote:You know that the official's assoc. is going to buck losing as much control as what's being talked about.
Also; The definition of offside has changed to the point that if the tip of your toe is inside the line but the puck is 3 feet behind you, it's good.
Not in my day it wasn't. The puck had to precede the player/players.
Until this is defined better, I don't see how to improve the situation, with or without cameras
It's hard to keep up with some of the changes like this for sure. It feels like they arbitrarily rule on things much of the time which only serves to muddy the waters.

I attend a fair number of live games, and the difference in entertainment level from sitting at home in front of my tube to the product in front of me when it's live becomes more and more obvious the more they shuffle the rules and try to fix shit. With all the replay stuff going on it is easier to watch it from my couch because they have all the analytic shit going on, plus the constant replays and commentary from the talking heads. From my seat in the rink that stuff is absent and they often won't show much on the screens there until after the call is made.

Such a catch 22 tho. A guy wants to see the right call be made for his team, but damned if it don't get boring sitting there waiting, and it is borderling outrage for me when after all that they get the call wrong, or even if they get it right and it goes against us.

You can feel the energy go out of the place as soon as a review its the 45 second mark, just sucks.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Mickey107 »

JMoose wrote:
micky107 wrote:You know that the official's assoc. is going to buck losing as much control as what's being talked about.
Also; The definition of offside has changed to the point that if the tip of your toe is inside the line but the puck is 3 feet behind you, it's good.
Not in my day it wasn't. The puck had to precede the player/players.
Until this is defined better, I don't see how to improve the situation, with or without cameras
It's hard to keep up with some of the changes like this for sure. It feels like they arbitrarily rule on things much of the time which only serves to muddy the waters.

I attend a fair number of live games, and the difference in entertainment level from sitting at home in front of my tube to the product in front of me when it's live becomes more and more obvious the more they shuffle the rules and try to fix shit. With all the replay stuff going on it is easier to watch it from my couch because they have all the analytic shit going on, plus the constant replays and commentary from the talking heads. From my seat in the rink that stuff is absent and they often won't show much on the screens there until after the call is made.

Such a catch 22 tho. A guy wants to see the right call be made for his team, but damned if it don't get boring sitting there waiting, and it is borderling outrage for me when after all that they get the call wrong, or even if they get it right and it goes against us.

You can feel the energy go out of the place as soon as a review its the 45 second mark, just sucks.
Agree !! Hell, it's been years since they started having TV time outs during live games and I'm still trying to get use to that! Compared to the old days, it still looks stupid to see players stroll to the benches with their arms over the boards chatting. Oh well, it's all about TV revenue....
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Hockey Widow »

Eliminate the challenge for off sides.

Enforce the hurry up and drop the puck and start dropping it faster.

Penalize teams that delay too long on line changes.

Enhance the goalie interference by calling back all goals with any incidental contact. Take away players crashing the net.

Or, instead of taking away a teams time out, penalize them when they get it wrong. Sort of like the illegal stick thing.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Mickey107 »

Hockey Widow wrote:Eliminate the challenge for off sides.

Enforce the hurry up and drop the puck and start dropping it faster.

Penalize teams that delay too long on line changes.

Enhance the goalie interference by calling back all goals with any incidental contact. Take away players crashing the net.

Or, instead of taking away a teams time out, penalize them when they get it wrong. Sort of like the illegal stick thing.
Ya!, what happened to the quick puck drop?
If they were to start calling penalties on a goalies own team mates for pushing guys into him, the whole thing might improve....
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Aaronp18 »

Hockey Widow wrote: Or, instead of taking away a teams time out, penalize them when they get it wrong. Sort of like the illegal stick thing.
This!

If they are wrong on a challenge it should be a delay of game. It essentially is!

Guarantee the frivolous calls for a review stop immediately.
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Mickey107 »

Go back to wooden sticks! They were only about 1000% better.
Don't jump all over me, I'm just messing around. It is true though.
Shots were better, more accurate and guess what?
They didn't break as easy.
In them olden days, we were taught to knock a guys stick outta his hands. You'd get the puck and his coach would give him shit for not holding on to his damn stick. Now? They break and you get a penalty. LOL
Money, money, money; From the NHL right down to a Pee Wee's first little stick, why make $35.00 when you can make $250.00+. more LOL
I understand you can get a 65 flex stick now. That's a f**king fishing rod. Serious LOL
My last 10 years, I used a Coffee 7000 with 105 flex. 101 mph slap shot. A stick would generally last 6 or 7 games and all the hours of practice, (hundreds of shots) between, not that I didn't have a back-up, go figure :?
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Re: N.H.L. Rule Changes; Anything goes.

Post by Aaronp18 »

micky107 wrote: I understand you can get a 65 flex stick now. That's a f**king fishing rod. Serious LOL
My last 10 years, I used a Coffee 7000 with 105 flex. 101 mph slap shot. A stick would generally last 6 or 7 games and all the hours of practice, (hundreds of shots) between, not that I didn't have a back-up, go figure :?
A 65 flex is an intermediate stick. Made for kids/teens.

I use a 75 flex, but I couldn't tell you the last time I took a slap shot. You learn to let the stick do the work for you! I'm also not 200lbs so a 105 flex would feel like a steel post to me flex wise.

It has nothing to do with the flex as to why they break so easily, it`s the construction. They`re like golf shafts these days, very strong and lightweight when completely intact and the graphite fibres aren`t compromised, but bend them the wrong way or get a dent or chip and it`ll break like a glass rod. It`s part of the strategy now, slash the guys stick to compromise its integrity and then he goes to take a shot and it`ll blow up in his hand.

Playing mens league I go through a stick or two a year, probably one every 20+ games.

NHL players use the lightest and most technologically advanced stick because they`re free for them. But this also means they break easier because they`ve reduced the weight so much! You can buy heavy duty composite sticks and they`ll last way longer.
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