The Great Jim Benning Debate!

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Ronning's Ghost
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm

An insult to avoid the question. I submit that you should be setting a higher standard, Doc.

I have conceded for the sake of argument that Benning inherited an absolute black hole of a team, worse than any expansion team, with no prospects in the pipeline, and (in spite of having won the President's Trophy two years in a row just two seasons before that) no veteran talent that would return anything in trade. Maybe under a gypsy curse, too. However bad you want to say it was, I will make no argument.

Having said that, there is now only one player contract on the Canucks not signed by the current ownership/management group (Edler), and it is by no means the worst contract on the team. For better or worse, the Canucks are now Benning's team.

Strangelove was willing to boldly offer us a (now infamous) timeline for the Canucks return to the playoffs. I'm sure posters here would read any revisions to the forecast with interest. Heck, we don't know what any new free agents and/or the kids could do; it might still come true. My question, though -- and I think Blob's, too -- is what is the minimum standard for improvement before an objective observer would concede that this rebuild path has been unsuccessful?

I interpret UDL's post as 3 more years -- "another 2 years of high drafting" -- and, presumably, then a successful season. So, the playoffs (at least) by 2021? Is that the standard of the "Benning is a Genius" faction? But then they win at least 3 Stanley Cups in the next 6 years after that, right?

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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by DonCherry4PM » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:31 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:08 am
The old party line about not being able to handle a rebuild. In case you forget I’m the guy who wants the GM to acquire more picks in order to rebuild and develop a deep organization similar to what the Jets and Predators have done. You and your crew want to fastrack the rebuild by trading picks and kids for mid 20 something players like Sutter, Gudbranson, Baertschi, Vey, Pedan, Pouliott etc. You guys can’t wait for future draft picks to develop and want instant gratification. But it’s me that can’t handle a rebuild.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :sly: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This point continues to evade the apologists*. They keep preaching their false narrative notwithstanding direct evidence to the contrary. But then how could they continue to be apologists if they actually responded with something other than ad hominens when presented with reasoned analysis?

*Replace "cultist(s)" with "apologist(s)" at your discretion.
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.

- Sun Tzu

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Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:32 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm
An insult to avoid the question.
What question?

I wasn't involved in the conversation, I was merely underscoring the fact the guy always agrees with Blob.
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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:43 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:32 pm
Ronning's Ghost wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:59 pm
An insult to avoid the question.
What question?

I wasn't involved in the conversation, I was merely underscoring the fact the guy always agrees with Blob.
Yeah you can’t handle a rebuild.,

Gotta solve that age gap.... eh wot :roll:
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:45 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:31 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:08 am
The old party line about not being able to handle a rebuild. In case you forget I’m the guy who wants the GM to acquire more picks in order to rebuild and develop a deep organization similar to what the Jets and Predators have done. You and your crew want to fastrack the rebuild by trading picks and kids for mid 20 something players like Sutter, Gudbranson, Baertschi, Vey, Pedan, Pouliott etc. You guys can’t wait for future draft picks to develop and want instant gratification. But it’s me that can’t handle a rebuild.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :sly: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This point continues to evade the apologists*. They keep preaching their false narrative notwithstanding direct evidence to the contrary. But then how could they continue to be apologists if they actually responded with something other than ad hominens when presented with reasoned analysis?

*Replace "cultist(s)" with "apologist(s)" at your discretion.
"The point" has been addressed by "the apologists" many, many times.

All those players were young when they were brought in.

(it's not "instant gratification" when you bring in young developing players while retaining the standard number of picks)

(and for the billionth time no kid/prospect was given up in the Sutter trade) :roll:

Lord knows folks like Blob and Reef have responded with their share of ad hominens.

(not that I mind, humour is good too... but you are pretty silent on those ones)

These folks ignore "reasoned analysis"... so eventually one tires of wasting one's time.
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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:55 pm

Lol Sutter and Gudbranson were 5 and 6 year vets when brought in, they weren’t developing. Vey stunk and so did Pedan.

“The standard number of picks”. Like we can’t acquire extra ones... just choose the “standard number of picks”. What a crock of shit. I would venture to say the Canucks are slightly below “the standard number of picks” during Elmer’s tenure

Yes no extra picks went out in the deal for Sutter. An extra pick should have come back considering he was making a lot more money than the equal guy we traded for him. Bonino is equal to Sutter at worst and made half the money Birdbones did.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:06 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:55 pm
Lol Sutter and Gudbranson were 5 and 6 year vets when brought in, they weren’t developing.
Sutter doesn't count in this conversation because no kid/pick was given up.

That's one-billion-and-one times for those keeping track. :scowl:

The Guds was 24.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:55 pm
Vey stunk and so did Pedan.
Ahh but they were YOUNG when they were brought in (Pedan 21, Vey 22).

So it's not "instant gratification"... as you called it.

Yes those 2 didn't turn out well, but that doesn't mean the philosophy is unsound (it's done all the time).

Pedan was ruined by concussions and Vey was ruined by attempted murder.

Who knew.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:55 pm
I would venture to say the Canucks are slightly below “the standard number of picks” during Elmer’s tenure
Not if you count 2019.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:21 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:32 pm
What question?
The one that re-started the thread:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:18 am
So will this be the year that this is finally Bennings team? He’s now had five drafts, he’s heading to his fifth UFA season and hes had 4 + years to make trades. At what point does this team become his creation?
I'd be interested to read your take on this.

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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm

Pedan and Vey were ruined because they were shitty players. Their organizations knew this and pawned them off on Lennie Small.

For the one billionth and second time, an overpaid slug like Sutter should have had a 2nd attached him. Not a pick swap. Canucks should have been able to keep the 2nd and gotten the 3rd back for taking on a bigger salary and helping the Penguins out. You have trouble getting this through your thick skull. When teams help a team out of cap hell there is a benefit to doing so.

Gudbranson had five years in the league. Guys usually are what they are at that point. And like we have seen he hasn’t improved at all in two years.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:24 pm

HA!

Yes, and Canucks will make the playoffs this season, you can take that to the bank Cliffy! :thumbs:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:28 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:31 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:08 am
The old party line about not being able to handle a rebuild. In case you forget I’m the guy who wants the GM to acquire more picks in order to rebuild and develop a deep organization similar to what the Jets and Predators have done. You and your crew want to fastrack the rebuild by trading picks and kids for mid 20 something players like Sutter, Gudbranson, Baertschi, Vey, Pedan, Pouliott etc. You guys can’t wait for future draft picks to develop and want instant gratification. But it’s me that can’t handle a rebuild.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :sly: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This point continues to evade the apologists*. They keep preaching their false narrative notwithstanding direct evidence to the contrary. But then how could they continue to be apologists if they actually responded with something other than ad hominens when presented with reasoned analysis?

*Replace "cultist(s)" with "apologist(s)" at your discretion.
Yep the Instant Gratification Crew can’t see the forest for the trees. They like to spew out about everyone else not being able to handle a rebuild but it is they who are in denial.

Say no yo the IGC.... just as bad as the NDP.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:30 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm
Pedan and Vey were ruined because they were shitty players. Their organizations knew this and pawned them off on Lennie Small.
Dragging another one into the ditch Blobby? :sly:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm
For the one billionth and second time, an overpaid slug like Sutter should have had a 2nd attached him.
This conversation was started by YOU complaining about giving up kids/picks for "instant gratification".

YOU said Mr Sutter was acquired in said fashion.

YOU were wrong and now YOU are trying to move the goalposts.
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:22 pm
Gudbranson had five years in the league. Guys usually are what they are at that point.
No, 24-year-old defensemen are usually not all they can be at that age.

Give up yet? :mex:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Lol why would I give up? You countered zero of my points.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:34 pm

:roll:

See what I mean folks?

Strangelove wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:45 pm
These folks ignore "reasoned analysis"... so eventually one tires of wasting one's time.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:36 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Yes, and Canucks will make the playoffs this season, you can take that to the bank Cliffy! :thumbs:
And look good once they get there, of course.

Thank you for a definite answer. More posters should be so bold.

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