So, to reiterate, would you agree that for a “reasonable person” to proclaim JB a Genius, such “reasonable person” would need to see evidence indicating that JB was doing a significantly better job than an average NHL GM? (or, by your analogy, would a "reasonable person" need to "hear" evidence indicating that composer(X) was doing a significantly better job than an average composer in order for that person to be able to proclaim that composer(X) was indeed a "Genius"?)
The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)
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- DonCherry4PM
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
- Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
That was the longest sentence in CanucksCorner history... congratulations!!DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:49 pm So, to reiterate, would you agree that for a “reasonable person” to proclaim JB a Genius, such “reasonable person” would need to see evidence indicating that JB was doing a significantly better job than an average NHL GM? (or, by your analogy, would a "reasonable person" need to "hear" evidence indicating that composer(X) was doing a significantly better job than an average composer in order for that person to be able to proclaim that composer(X) was indeed a "Genius"?)
Now try to relax and just listen to the music Lord Benning is playing...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
We have always agreed on this point.Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pmLet's say a few years have gone by and the Canucks have won a coupla Cups with Jimbro at the helm.Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:46 pmIf genius from a hockey manager is not reflected in wins -- and ultimately, championships -- how else would it manifest ?Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:26 pm LMAO... if only it were so simple Cliffy!
Wins = Genius.
You just can't stop with all your "we" stuff, so hilarious...
At that point many folks would be proclaiming Jimbro a genius.
Would that mean he wasn't a genius a few years before that?
No... it would in fact prove that he was a genius all along!
And if a few years go by, and the Canucks haven't won a couple of Cups, what would that prove ?
Either way, it is necessary to collect the evidence (Cups, or lack thereof) to make the determination.
Sure, and if there is no winning, then there was no Masterpiece. Hence my assertion that more data (i.e. wins after the rebuild is complete -- next year was it ?) is required to declare that Jim Benning is a hockey management genius. Yes, that will mean that he was a genius the whole time, but the evidence isn't in yet.Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pm
The winning comes after the masterful rebuild.....
All I can do is ask that people try to see the magnificent masterpiece Jimbro is painting...
But it seems we agree: we need evidence of a Masterpiece (Championships) to conclude that the painter/composer/architect was (yes, all along) a genius. If that evidence appears, you can rightly claim you were ahead of the curve and saw it in the mix of the pigments, the first chords of the overture, the layout of the scaffolding and cut of the stones. I want to see the Masterpiece before I proclaim genius.
The open question is how many seasons is a fair shot at it before we say "That's it, give up, you're just smearing paint around the canvas -- now give someone else a try" ?
- DonCherry4PM
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
+1 to that RG.
A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.
A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Thanks !! That made my day.RoyalDude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:02 pm JimBro's Genius drafting was on full display today coming via the Price/Sekeras Team 1040 show when their Special Guest Adam Gaudette layed to rest any notion of him possibly entertaining the idea of going back to college next year to become a free agent. Mentioning honourng the Canucks for drafting him, giving him a chance, while the other 29 teams passed over him for 5 rounds. The leading scorer of the NCAA and Hobey Baker Nominee also mentioned that him and Boeser (2015 draft class mate) are good friends and talk all the time. This guy is s beaut, JimBro's drafting is pure genius! What a steal. After 6 years of shite embarrassing drafting under the Gillis regime, JimBro Benning is da shit!
Thank you too, Todd for putting up the link..
"evolution"
Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
+2DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:54 pm +1 to that RG.
A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.
Honestly don’t worry about SL, he absolutely lives for these types of debates.
- Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
So you agree that Jimbro may in fact be a genius TODAY.Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 pmWe have always agreed on this point.Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pm Let's say a few years have gone by and the Canucks have won a coupla Cups with Jimbro at the helm.
At that point many folks would be proclaiming Jimbro a genius.
Would that mean he wasn't a genius a few years before that?
No... it would in fact prove that he was a genius all along!
Good.
And here is where "we" disagree.Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 pm it is necessary to collect the evidence (Cups, or lack thereof) to make the determination...
Hence my assertion that more data is required to declare that Jim Benning is a hockey management genius...
Yes, that will mean that he was a genius the whole time, but the evidence isn't in yet...
we need evidence of a Masterpiece (Championships) to conclude that the painter/composer/architect was (yes, all along) a genius.
If that evidence appears, you can rightly claim you were ahead of the curve and saw it in the mix of the pigments, the first chords of the overture, the layout of the scaffolding and cut of the stones. I want to see the Masterpiece before I proclaim genius.
I see enough evidence to proclaim him a genius TODAY.
You don't... c'est la vie.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
You have been working hard around here trying to reach some kind of a... consensus
... as to when folks should feel free to proclaim him a genius.
All this "we" stuff.
Well guess what, this "beholder" will never agree to such a thing!
I'll say it again.
LORD BENNING IS A GENIUS!!!
Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy
... but that's not my problem brother.
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- Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
I'm glad Cliffy stepped in then!
Never post angry my friend...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Will you be providing that data/evidence in 1-2 years™?Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
LORD BENNING IS A GENIUS!!!™
Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy
... but that's not my problem brother.
Doc: "BTW, Donny was right, you're smug."
- Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Hopefully I won'y have to.
BTW what I predicted to happen in 1-2 years won't be enough to meet Cliffy's stated requirements...
BTW what I predicted to happen in 1-2 years won't be enough to meet Cliffy's stated requirements...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
What I have been trying to do is to bring you around the the idea of objective criteria, but it seems that you're not into it, and it's boring some other posters.Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
You have been working hard around here trying to reach some kind of a... consensus
... as to when folks should feel free to proclaim him a genius.
If I don't get this evidence, you will be more unhappy about it than I will, because it will mean that either the Canucks haven't had any playoff success, or Benning is no longer the GM.Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy
... but that's not my problem brother.
Hey, it was Royal Dude who introduced the whole "Masterpiece defines the genius" concept. The lowest threshold I proposed for consideration http://canuckscorner.com/forums/viewtop ... =2&t=10898 was Conference Finals by 2020.Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:02 pm
BTW what I predicted to happen in 1-2 years won't be enough to meet Cliffy's stated requirements...
- Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
2016 2nd rounders
1. Jonathan Dahlen - 20 goals 17 assists 37 points in 31 games
2, Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists 25 points in 38 games
1. Jonathan Dahlen - 20 goals 17 assists 37 points in 31 games
2, Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists 25 points in 38 games
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
- Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Benning drafted neither of these guys and they play in different leagues. Is there a point to this nonsense ?
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
- DonCherry4PM
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Who's angry?Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:34 pmI'm glad Cliffy stepped in then!
Never post angry my friend...
I enjoy trying to steer you towards more reasoned thinking.
I was just thankful for RG's post as it was a much more eloquent response (and probably succinct) than the one I had in mind.
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
Vincibility lies in the enemy.
- Sun Tzu
- Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!
Jared McCann - 5 goals 7 assists
Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists
Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau