The Great Jim Benning Debate!

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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon May 15, 2017 7:11 pm

Strangelove wrote:Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak? 8-)


You can research this yourself. I know off the top of my head that all of those teams have flogged older players at or before the deadline over the past few years. I also know that all three of these teams have deeper and more talented groups of young players. Only a homer or a retard would disagree.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Strangelove » Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.


Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?


Sigh, they've made deals trading veterans for picks/prospects over the last three deadlines in terms of the Coyotes and in 2015 and 2016 for the Leafs. Carolina has done much the same thing.


Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

I think your Canucks have signed more young college/junior players to close any perceived gap.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.


Wrong.


Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak? :evil:

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over") :lol:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon May 15, 2017 7:18 pm

You're going to make Reefer angry
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue May 16, 2017 7:16 am

Strangelove wrote:Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over") :lol:


Vancouver has traded or lost 4 of those 27. Of the 7 who have played NHL games, only three are still with the Franchise. 2 of those 6 first round picks have been dealt.

Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17
Boston: 14
Calgary: 15
Edmonton: 14
Tampa Bay: 15
New York Rangers: 11
Chicago: 13
Anaheim: 14
San Jose: 11


For a rebuilding team, it's probably not a good sign that even teams in win-now mode are drafting more in the higher-ends of the draft... hardly seems like a good way to catch up to them.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby RoyalDude » Tue May 16, 2017 7:25 am

Demko, Tryamkin, Gaudette, Lockwood, Brisebios, Forsling all drafted outside the 1st round. Boeser drafted 23rd overall. She-ite Batman that's some damn fine drafting outside the lottery zone in just 3 drafts. In 6 drafts outside the lottery zone from Gillis all we have to show for is Hutton, that is gawd damn miserable. Benning is tracking nicely if he keeps finding gems later in the draft unlike Gilleye
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Strangelove » Tue May 16, 2017 9:06 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over") :lol:


Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17


Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9

(average number of Top-66 picks per team in last 4 drafts = 8.8)

(half of the teams you "randomly" chose :roll: had less than 8.8... your Rangers had just 4 in the Top-66)

The average number of Top-66 picks per year per team is 2.2.

Your Vancouver Canucks currently hold 4 Top-66 picks so far (incl Cbs pick) in the 2017 draft.

As of now they stand to end up 2nd in total Top-66 picks from 2013-17 (14 Top-66 picks).

(average will be 11)

Not too shabby.

EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!

I know you're trying to change the conversation but

... I came into this conversation to challenge an assertion made by your bum buddy blob.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 16, 2017 9:19 am

Lol said the klown who thinks Vancouver has more young talent than Toronto, Carolina and Phoenix .
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Strangelove » Tue May 16, 2017 9:37 am

Blob Mckenzie Mon May 15, 2017 5:09 pm wrote:These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.

Strangelove Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm wrote:Wrong.

Blob Mckenzie Mon May 15, 2017 6:03 pm wrote:Next you will tell me Vancouver has the best group of young players in the league.

Strangelove wrote: *no response*

Blob Mckenzie Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 am wrote:Lol said the klown who thinks Vancouver has more young talent than Toronto, Carolina and Phoenix .


Lol who's the klown?? :lol:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 16, 2017 9:48 am

Ummm you :lol:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Strangelove » Tue May 16, 2017 10:08 am

Image
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 16, 2017 10:26 am

Lol
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue May 16, 2017 10:35 am

Strangelove wrote:Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9


I guess if I'm allowed to pick an arbitrary number (I thought top-100 was fine), then you can too. I do note 66 is the magic number that allows you to include Tryamkin and Brisebois.


EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!


So does that mean McCann, Shinkaruk, and Tryamkin come out? Two steps forward, three steps back...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby Strangelove » Tue May 16, 2017 11:13 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:I guess if I'm allowed to pick an arbitrary number (I thought top-100 was fine), then you can too.


Yeah that's what I figured. :mex:

66 is my lucky number...

Island Nucklehead wrote:
EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!


So does that mean McCann, Shinkaruk, and Tryamkin come out? Two steps forward, three steps back...


You're brighter than you look. :D

But we still own Tryamkin's NHL rights... so no you can't count him.

Okay then we're back to 14 Top-66 picks from 2013-17, three more than the average and

... 2nd most Top-66 picks in the NHL from 2013-17!

So ummm what were you boys getting your diapers in a bunch about? 8-)

BTW McCann/Shink were shipped out for other better young players.

Dahlen/Goldie were brought in for old vets.

Seems like a pretty solid rebuild thus far...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby ESQ » Tue May 16, 2017 12:48 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17


Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9

(average number of Top-66 picks per team in last 4 drafts = 8.8)

(half of the teams you "randomly" chose :roll: had less than 8.8... your Rangers had just 4 in the Top-66)

The average number of Top-66 picks per year per team is 2.2.

Your Vancouver Canucks currently hold 4 Top-66 picks so far (incl Cbs pick) in the 2017 draft.

As of now they stand to end up 2nd in total Top-66 picks from 2013-17 (14 Top-66 picks).

(average will be 11)

Not too shabby.

Wow.

This is some fine (and laborious, no doubt) number-crunching here, my hat is off to you both!
Last edited by ESQ on Tue May 16, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Postby ESQ » Tue May 16, 2017 12:52 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.


Hey, if Benning was able to re-stock the cupboards in 3 years of re-building to the same level as teams like Toronto (out of playoffs for a decade except for one hiccup), Arizona (no playoffs for 5 years) and Carolina (playoffs once in a decade), even you would have to agree he's a genius!

But as I was attempting to point out, the Canucks were in a win-now mode up until the year before Benning took over. Really, I would argue they were in win-now mode for a solid decade, from WCE to 2013. Arizona's best player is Ekman-Larson, drafted in 1st round in 2009. Carolina's best player is Jeff Skinner, drafted in 1st round 2010 - compare that to the Canucks, who only had Schroeder, Rodin and Connauton picked in the first 3 rounds of those 2 years.

And by the way, Arizona had 2 more picks than the Canucks from 2013-2016. The Laffs have had 4 more.

Canucks have picked 6th, 23rd and 5th over the last 3 drafts, the Laffs have had 8th, 4th and 1st. That right there explains the difference in quality of prospects/youth between the Laffs and the Canucks. With those 3 high picks, the Laffs got a first line. With our 3 picks, we got Virtanen, Boeser and Olli - only one of whom has had an opportunity to make an impact on the team.
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