The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

[Chef Boi RD]

Can you imagine, if we kept Grabner and the first we gave to Florida and drafted one of Kuznetsov or Coyle? Instead we don't draft until the 4th round only to see the 4 picks we drafted from that draft class never pan out. How shitty is that, nothing to show for from an entire draft year, a common Gillis theme unlike Benning

Would you still be alive if the Canucks lost Grabner on waivers, like Florida did after trading for him? I suspect the aneurysm may have been catastrophic.

Yeah he glosses over the fact Grabner was actually playing well in the AHL. Virtanen looks like an ECHL player at this point.

So by that account with Grabner actually playing well in the AHL coupled with INbreds gift for knowing the outcome in alternate worlds made from alternate decisions - Florida waiving Grabner that means Gillis would have waived him too? Boy oh boy RD, Gillis even makes dumb ass decisions in alternate universes - Grabner 27 goals this season.

Remember Bubbles and INbreds urinating over Benning waiving Corrado?

Where is Ballard?

[Blob Mckenzie]

He wasn't physical at all which is hugely alarming as well. He apparently avoided contact and confrontation like the plague.

Care to reference?

I watched half dozen games myself and I don't think I saw him throw a hit in those games. There are two posters on hfboards Canucks who watch all the games and they both commented that his physical game all but disappeared.

[BladesofSteel]

[Blob Mckenzie]

[Island Nucklehead]

So by that account with Grabner actually playing well in the AHL coupled with INbreds gift for knowing the outcome in alternate worlds made from alternate decisions - Florida waiving Grabner that means Gillis would have waived him too? Boy oh boy RD, Gillis even makes dumb ass decisions in alternate universes - Grabner 27 goals this season.

Pot? Is that you?

Grabner was trying to work his way onto a team that had four 50+ point wingers.

I wonder if the Panthers, Islanders and leaves are all as apoplectic as you are about this guy moving on.

It's been more than three years since Mike Gillis was fired. You really need to move on, Dude.

[ESQ]

I think Grabner does have some relevance, because its the loss of all players in Grabner's generation that has left Benning in the position he's in, and its the reason he can't do a quick re-tool like the Sharks and Ducks (as IN pointed out).

I'm not saying Grabner is the cure to all of the Canucks problems, but he's emblematic of the problem of having practically nothing to show for a decade of drafting.

My point is, there's nothing Benning could have done to make up for essentially no first round picks from 2005 to 2012, and Mason Raymond being the best forward drafted in that period that had an impact for the Canucks.

The rebuild had started under Gillis' watch, and the biggest piece of the youth movement thus far was acquired by Gillis. It continued in Benning's year one with the team trading two of their veteran top-4 D and one of the best shutdown centers in the game. In spite of re-building and shipping out vets, Benning's team made the playoffs on the strength of a Sedin bounceback and one solid UFA signing in Vrbata.

Now we're in year 3 (or 3.5, going back to the Luongo trade) of the re-build, with 4 players remaining from 2013/14, and surprise surprise its painful. With a 70+ point bounceback by the Sedins and a Vrbata-like performance from Eriksson, we may be a playoff team again, but its much more unlikely for the stars to align at this stage of the re-build. Alternatively, if the Sedins maintain and Horvat, Baertschi, Boeser get 60+ points, we could be right in the thick of it.

But what more can you really ask in a re-build? Young players are getting a shot, high picks are being acquired, vets have been shipped out steadily for 3 years, and there is a sliver of hope that with a lot of good luck, they can be competitive.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Yes Gillis didn't draft well and yes he made a few blunders most notably the Ballard trade. This however is a Benning thread so maybe we ( well most of us ) can get back on track and discuss Elmer. I hope to god the hemorrhaging of draft picks has finally stopped. Three 2nds and a third that were handed away could have put four more good prospects in the pipeline. Have a look at some of the youngsters taken in the 2nd round of the last three drafts it will make you puke. More lottery tickets = more chances at an impact player.

We all know the cupboard was pretty bare when Elmer got here but the bottom line is that he is on his way to no playoffs in 3 /4 seasons and a dearth of high end young talent. He is coming up to his fourth draft and badly needs a homerun or three.

[ESQ]

We all know the cupboard was pretty bare when Elmer got here but the bottom line is that he is on his way to no playoffs in 3 /4 seasons and a dearth of high end young talent. He is coming up to his fourth draft and badly needs a homerun or three.

Well, what did you expect in a rebuild?

[ESQ]

And sorry Blob, but three 2nds and one 3rd wouldn't have changed anything.

From 6 years of Gillis, the team got 11 NHL games out of his 2nd round picks - 8 from Sauve, 3 from Rodin.

Other than May Ray, the only other 2nd round pick of the Canucks to have had an impact in the past 20 years was Artem Chubarov.

[Blob Mckenzie]

We all know the cupboard was pretty bare when Elmer got here but the bottom line is that he is on his way to no playoffs in 3 /4 seasons and a dearth of high end young talent. He is coming up to his fourth draft and badly needs a homerun or three.

Well, what did you expect in a rebuild?

I expected it and I have no problem with it. The Aquilinis on the other hand ...........

[Blob Mckenzie]

And sorry Blob, but three 2nds and one 3rd wouldn't have changed anything.

From 6 years of Gillis, the team got 11 NHL games out of his 2nd round picks - 8 from Sauve, 3 from Rodin.

Other than May Ray, the only other 2nd round pick of the Canucks to have had an impact in the past 20 years was Artem Chubarov.

Go back and have a look at the last three drafts and see some high prospects picked in round 2

[Mickey107]

We all know the cupboard was pretty bare when Elmer got here but the bottom line is that he is on his way to no playoffs in 3 /4 seasons and a dearth of high end young talent. He is coming up to his fourth draft and badly needs a homerun or three.

Well, what did you expect in a rebuild?

Guess it depends what you want.
Just get it running on all eight cylinders again. or
Do a frame-off restoration where there is no chance of any rust anywhere for many years and the engine is brand new with twice the horse power.

Just a stupid car joke but it's just that you can rebuild or you can REBUILD.

[ESQ]

Go back and have a look at the last three drafts and see some high prospects picked in round 2

2015 - 2 2nd rounders have become NHLers - Aho and Carlo
2014 - 1 (Dvorak)
2013 - 2 (Lehkonnen and Petan)
2012 - 5 (McCabe, Sisssons, Tierney, Martinook, Severson)
2011 - 6 (Gibson, Jenner, Saad, Nieto, Granlund, Kucherov, Rask)

Except for Kucherov and maybe Aho, I wouldn't consider any of those first-line players, or even potential first-liners. I'd say that's pretty fair approximation of the value of 2nd rounders - a 1/3 chance to get a decent 3rd line player.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Sigh.... these guys have been taken in the last three years and there are a dozen more guys I could name that will be damn good NHLers like Montour, Greenway, Chlapik, Point and a host of others. They are still organizational assets and should absolutely not be thrown in as overpayment for 3rd liners (Sutter) , bottom pairing d men ( Gudbranson) , or just given away for AHL talent like Pedan or Vey.

By your rationale maybe the team should just decline picking in the 2nd and 3rd rounds

[ESQ]

By your rationale maybe the team should just decline picking in the 2nd and 3rd rounds

Nah, I'm just saying we shouldn't act like trading away 3 2nd rounders in 3 years means that we're not in the middle of a re-build and/or that Benning has fucked up the re-build.

2nd rounders are nice, but only 1 in 100 will turn a franchise around (e.g. PK Subban).