The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

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Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove »

Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm How is bringing in a a 24-year-old (Guds) and a 22-year-old (Vey) not conducive to a "5+-year plan"?
Gudbranson is servicable, but there's no way we're recouping what we gave up for him. And 5 years after the Canucks acquired him, Linden Vey is likely to be starting his second season with Zurich SC.
You didn't answer the question: How is bringing in a a 24-year-old and a 22-year-old not conducive to a "5+-year plan"?

ANSWER: Bringing in 22-year-olds/24-year-olds is conducive to a "5+-year plan.

If the kid gets ends up getting run over by an army truck... it doesn't mean the plan was not sound.
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm Likewise with "overpaying" Sutter...
How many times have you recently talked about trading him after next season? Why are we going down that road? Wasn't he supposed to be a foundational player, just needing a shot to escape the long shadows of Crosby/Malkin? What happened?!
I never said I wanted to trade Sutter, and once again you did not answer the question.
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:23 am I think most of the disagreement stems from his desire to accelerate a traditional rebuild by bringing in guys that most felt were just not going to be part of a long-term solution (the Veys, Clendennings, Pedans, Gudbransons).
Nope, pretty much everyone had high hopes for these young guys when they were brought in.
So it's just a case of poor professional scouting. Agreed.
Lame attempt at trying to change the subject...
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:23 am Some will jump in and say "but he maintained a standard amount of draft picks" miss the potential that having 2-4 more picks every year would bring (or chose to ignore it).
Mind explaining how we could have had 2-4 more picks every year?
Benning has sent twelve picks out the door. He's brought in 10.

He gave up draft picks in trades for Dorsett, Vey, Baertschi, Prust, Sutter, Etem, Larson, Gudbranson and Pouliot. Maybe he doesn't do some of those deals, maybe in other trades he prioritizes draft picks instead of aging prospects or veterans.

Not hard to think the guy could've picked up 15-20 draft picks over the past 5 seasons...
Yeahno, the math doesn't work.

And for the one-billion-and second time...a pick was not given up in the Sutter trade! :hmmm:

Anyway, like I said to you yesterday, every team gives up picks to fill present needs...
Island Nucklehead wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm Also, comparing the potential of young developing players to even younger players is a fool's errand.
Perhaps, but I would say the older guys give a better indication of what to expect. I'd rather have the chance at a home run than pick up a single.
The chance of a home run is just as good either way...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Hockey Widow »

I wasn’t a fan of the Prust trade either. But I understood it, more so with the 20-20 hindsight we got after the trade. Prust was they type of player we needed and was playing alright until his high ankle sprain. After that he was a waste.

Never liked the Vey trade but admittedly I knew nothing about him at the time. He started off like gang busters then disappeared into his Raymond like perimeter game.

Pedan for a 3rd was curious but most of us held out hope that the big Russian could develop into a nice physical deterrent. I don’t think he got a fair chance here but he helped us get Pouliot, as if that’s much.

I’d do again the Granlund deal, the Baertschi deal, the Sutter deal, the Gudbranson deal.

The only contract I’d do over really is Ericksson.

So I’m curious, what prospects have had their development delayed by Benning’s actions?
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

The six picks he puked away
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Strangelove wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:35 pm The chance of a home run is just as good either way...
You can't hit a home run if you're already standing on first base.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Hockey Widow »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm The six picks he puked away
As opposed to the ten picks he acquired?
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:27 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm The six picks he puked away
As opposed to the ten picks he acquired?
12 out and 10 in. Do you know of another rebuild in recent history where the rebuilding team trades more picks than they acquire. Let’s not forget one pick was a gift from the league
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Hockey Widow »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:31 pm
Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:27 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm The six picks he puked away
As opposed to the ten picks he acquired?
12 out and 10 in. Do you know of another rebuild in recent history where the rebuilding team trades more picks than they acquire. Let’s not forget one pick was a gift from the league
Calgary, off the top of my head.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:38 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:31 pm
Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:27 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm The six picks he puked away
As opposed to the ten picks he acquired?
12 out and 10 in. Do you know of another rebuild in recent history where the rebuilding team trades more picks than they acquire. Let’s not forget one pick was a gift from the league
Calgary, off the top of my head.
How’s that working out for them? They are in marginally better shape than Vancouver
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Hockey Widow »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:49 pm
Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:38 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:31 pm
Hockey Widow wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:27 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:24 pm The six picks he puked away
As opposed to the ten picks he acquired?
12 out and 10 in. Do you know of another rebuild in recent history where the rebuilding team trades more picks than they acquire. Let’s not forget one pick was a gift from the league
Calgary, off the top of my head.
How’s that working out for them? They are in marginally better shape than Vancouver

You win Blob. I bow to your wisdom and managerial abilities. I think I’ll step back from the whole Benning debate. Hopefully that debate can be kept in one thread from now on. Makes it much easier to ignore.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Wids it isn’t that I need to win. Fact is myself and a few others, usually you as well debate the moves one by one. Some we like , some we don’t. There is a crew here with a massive agenda that thinks EVERY move Jet Black makes is amazing. I’m ok with the signings as long as some driftwood is swiftly cleaned up. You can’t wait for very long to move out those slugs because a few teams have the same issue.

Today was ok. It isn’t as bad as hfboards makes it out to be and it isn’t as good as Doc and his puppets make it out to be. It’s somewhere in the middle. They still have to purge.

Here’s a question for you. Would you rather have two of Pat Maroon, James Neal or David Perron? Not saying it was possible but they are vets and two of them would be similar to the combined cost of the 4th line brigade Elmer signed up
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Carl Yagro »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:01 pm
Here’s a question for you. Would you rather have two of Pat Maroon, James Neal or David Perron? Not saying it was possible but they are vets and two of them would be similar to the combined cost of the 4th line brigade Elmer signed up
Then where would your youngsters play? These are exactly the type of vets you don't want for a rebuilding team even if they were willing to come. They would want money, term and even more protection so you can't just dump them anywhere you want. <Cough, Edmonton>

They would only be interested in their own interests. At least, the brigade would protect our important pieces. They wouldn't be in the way of our best assets but could fill in until they're ready. Isn't this the whole point now?

Are you saying Beagle's resume wouldn't be good in a mentorship/leadership role here? Or a Dorsett-like player like Roussel wouldn't embolden the team? Would Archibald, Gaunce, the Megnas & Chaputs of the world help develop EP, Brock, Hughes, etc. to their full potential? I don't think so.

I'm sure contending teams would line up for players of this ilk if it doesn't work out here for them anymore. The limited protection wouldn't matter much by then. Also expansion.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Blub is talking out of his ass again, all we need now is the Berryman to tell us how it tastes. Perron, Neal, Maroon??? Blub the comedy is killing me.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

RoyalDude wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:16 pm Blub is talking out of his ass again, all we need now is the Berryman to tell us how it tastes. Perron, Neal, Maroon??? Blub the comedy is killing me.
Another weak post.. you off to the Astoria tonight?
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Carl Yagro »

If Roussel wasn't available, maybe Komarov would have been a good pickup? 19 pts last year, same term and money. Market value.

And Beagle getting more than Riley Nash? Simply pedigree. Plus Nash has only had one proven good year.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

RoyalDude wrote: Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:16 pm Blub is talking out of his ass again, all we need now is the Berryman to tell us how it tastes. Perron, Neal, Maroon??? Blub the comedy is killing me.
You off to the American tonight ? Maybe a show at the Leopold hotel?

I’m hopping the train to try some craft beers at Port Moody and listening to the tunes of Barney Bentall and the Legendary Hearts
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