First round picks

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Strangelove
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Re: First round picks

Post by Strangelove » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:05 pm

That post was the outlier Mondi, I was being purposely silly, here it is in context:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10756&start=30

Hell, HW responded with talk about winning the Cup. :lol:

We were just playing with Nuckertuzzi, twas all in good fun my little strawman-builder!

Do you want me to quote the dozens of times I said it's gonna be a rough coupla years

... and how folks should focus on 3 years from now.

DO YOU??!! :P

Now go straight home you little goalpost-mover you...
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Re: First round picks

Post by Topper » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:45 pm

What is it now Doc?

Playoffs?

No Playoffs?

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I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: First round picks

Post by Strangelove » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:09 pm

How did you know I wear pink thongs? :wink:

As I've said many times, beginning last summer, making the playoffs would be a nice bonus.

But that we need to focus on 3 years from now. :mex:
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Re: First round picks

Post by ESQ » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:38 pm

Mondi wrote:Give me a break HW. Are you seriously saying it is not important to have homegrown top 3/5 talent in their prime? Or are you saying I needed to spell it out that having players in their prime years was part of my argument? You draft a player and develop him, and when the corner stores of your franchise peak that is when you have your short.
But, you keep bringing up Detroit with Yzerman, who was drafted in 1983. You bring up Detroit to support your argument when Yzerman had been in the league for 20 years already!!! Yzerman didn't win his first cup until he'd been in the league for 14 years!! He was a decade out of his prime!

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Re: First round picks

Post by micky107 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:37 am

Wow! Glad I fell asleep last night. Mondi. Why not just accept Edmonton's plan is a 20 year plan. Maybe all them 1st round picks will pan out(when their 40ish). There's a bad hockey mentality there and that's it! Hell, I think it's an atrocity the amount of talent wasted on that town.
We're getting a good pick this year hear and I'm looking forward to that. We earned it!
To my point about outside the cap? Money, money, money on scouts. There's more to drafting than the official list.
where was Benn drafted?????????
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Re: First round picks

Post by dbr » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:05 am

I'm not even going to bother reading the mess in this thread, but I would like to point out that going back to the well on the Oilers example is pretty damned selective when discussing a tear down rebuild in principle.

The problem with the Oilers is that a. they've initiated several tear down rebuilds because/and b. their management has been absolute shite over that time and longer. Aside from a fluke run a decade ago they haven't been contenders in 20+ years and have made about four non-gimme draft picks in the last 15 years that have worked out. They even found a way to blow their 2003 first round pick. The last draft where they got two legit NHL players after the first round was 2002.

They can't attract free agents either, Michael Nylander's wife cried so hard he welched on the deal he signed there and went to Washington instead. :lol:

Anyway, pretending that if they didn't dump guys like Perron and Petry and uhh.. Luvomir Visnovsky and Ryan Smyth their circumstances would be substantially different right now is a bit of a reach. The problem with the Oilers is not the bottom-out, it's the drafting and pro scouting and the dunderheads in management - and well, the fact that it is in Edmonton.

Of course, you can find a lot of other franchises that hit rock bottom and stayed there (Columbus, Phoenix picked top 10 several years in a row and now are right back there, you used to be able to talk about the Islanders and Panthers here as well, but :look: )..

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Re: First round picks

Post by Tciso » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:50 am

Mondi wrote:
[What I would advocate against is further signings like Vrbata and Miller].
Both were good signings, but, just too long of term. Vrbata was great last year. So was Miller. But, Vrbata was wasted $$ this season, and Miller is only so/so, and also a waste for next year.

We need some vets, but I hope we can sign some UFAs with heart and skill. And, keep the terms short, so they don't become road blocks,
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Re: First round picks

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:02 am

Tciso wrote:
Mondi wrote:
[What I would advocate against is further signings like Vrbata and Miller].
Both were good signings, but, just too long of term. Vrbata was great last year. So was Miller. But, Vrbata was wasted $$ this season, and Miller is only so/so, and also a waste for next year.

We need some vets, but I hope we can sign some UFAs with heart and skill. And, keep the terms short, so they don't become road blocks,

2 years Vrbata
3 years Miller

That's not short term?
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Re: First round picks

Post by Cornuck » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:13 am

Tciso wrote: Both were good signings, but, just too long of term. Vrbata was great last year. So was Miller. But, Vrbata was wasted $$ this season, and Miller is only so/so, and also a waste for next year.

We need some vets, but I hope we can sign some UFAs with heart and skill. And, keep the terms short, so they don't become road blocks,
I don't think anyone saw Vrbata's rapid fall coming - and he's gone July 1, so really, was it a bad signing?

Miller was brought in to bring some stability to the net. The 3 year signing was long enough to let Markstrom or Lack develop into a starter without the pressure, while still giving us a chance to win most/many nights.

As for a short term signing? If 2 and 3 years are too long, what kind of UFA vet are we going to get on 1 and 2 year terms? :/ Most of these short term signings are done so a player can re-establish his career - like Vrbata might be looking at in July (and generally those aren't 'heart and skill' guys).
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Re: First round picks

Post by Aaronp18 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:04 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Tciso wrote: Both were good signings, but, just too long of term. Vrbata was great last year. So was Miller. But, Vrbata was wasted $$ this season, and Miller is only so/so, and also a waste for next year.

We need some vets, but I hope we can sign some UFAs with heart and skill. And, keep the terms short, so they don't become road blocks,
I don't think anyone saw Vrbata's rapid fall coming - and he's gone July 1, so really, was it a bad signing?

Miller was brought in to bring some stability to the net. The 3 year signing was long enough to let Markstrom or Lack develop into a starter without the pressure, while still giving us a chance to win most/many nights.

As for a short term signing? If 2 and 3 years are too long, what kind of UFA vet are we going to get on 1 and 2 year terms? :/ Most of these short term signings are done so a player can re-establish his career - like Vrbata might be looking at in July (and generally those aren't 'heart and skill' guys).
Y'know what kind of vets we get on 1-2 year deals? The Matt Bartkowskis and Yannick Webers of the league!

There was really nothing wrong with the Miller and Vrbata signings. Short term solutions with low risk, and they aren't paid a ton. Not to mention who the hell else do we sign that could've helped at the time? Cap space is great and all if there are players available to use it on, oh and those players have to want to sign with the Canucks.

C'mon Tciso!! You act as though we had free run at all the UFAs throughout the league could determine salary and term at our leisure.

There's 29 other teams competing for the same pool of players.

Honestly, can you let me know who you would have rather spent the $11M on that we paid Miller and Vrbata?

Before you assemble that extensive list don't forget the had to be UFA, want to play in Vancouver, fall within our cap structure, we would have to outbid other suitors, fill the positions we needed, oh and by your standards be better players than Miller and Vrbata. I won't hold my breath. :roll:

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Re: First round picks

Post by Topper » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:50 pm

Which is why I have never understood the hate for Luca Sbisa 3 yrs.
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I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: First round picks

Post by Strangelove » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:09 pm

Topper wrote:Which is why I have never understood the hate for Luca Sbisa 3 yrs.
Rummy and Blob just rolled over in their grave!

Yes, singular. :mrgreen:

Yeah, two of the three years on that contract were UFA years.

Sbisa has intangibles (although numbers-crazed fancy-statters will tell you there's no such animal)

Sbisa plays a physical game on a team lacking in that area.

Sbisa is a great mentor on a youth-movement team (and he's not exactly 'old' himself!).

Sure Sbisa is a you-know-wot, but I forgive him....
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Re: First round picks

Post by micky107 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:15 pm

The Vrbata and Miller deals weren't horrible. About half a mill each less about right and that 1 mill wiggle room would have helped a bit this year in particular, maybe at the deadline, who knows. Like it's been said Vrbata is gone anyway, though I'm a bit pissed at his lack of enthusiasm this year. Have a feeling he's headed for Europe, who cares.
Major worry about keeping Miller another year: He is one of, if not the #1 goalie in regards to defending the big pads and net crashing. I'd make a good size bet that this summer the pads shrink and he'll have a tough time with it. He's also been really whiny to the refs this year, more than most, and we have enough trouble with that, thanks Alex. (Alex B is probably unmovable).
Every ones going to say well what do we do for goal? In a perfect world, Demko but if not for next year there are good cheaper tenders...
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Re: First round picks

Post by micky107 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:20 pm

Sbisa is good. Better if he didn't have to rotate partners 3 times a game.
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Re: First round picks

Post by Hockey Widow » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:27 pm

Miller has always been whinny. We ain't seeing nothing knew there.

Hopefully Demko will be in Utica next season. Hopefully we see Markstrom get a more even split of games. Hopefully Markstrom shows next season he is ready to be the number one. Hopefully after that we can let Miller walk.
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