Jim help the twins

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The_Pauser
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by The_Pauser »

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:It baffles me how a team that is this poor is crammed right up against the cap .
Why do you care?

Pretty much every team is sitting somewhere between $60 - $70M this year.

Canucks are one of them. :eh:
People should care because it show's Benning doesn't have a clue about cap management.
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Strangelove
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Strangelove »

The_Pauser wrote: People should care because it show's Benning doesn't have a clue about cap management.
... said that guy who pissed + moaned about every Sedin contract ever. :roll:

Short-term placeholder contracts don't mean much in a rebuild.

I like the long-term contracts he has given to Tanev + Sutter.

And I like the way Jimmy drafts... and the way he rolls the dice.

BTW every time I see you around the boards I think of Irwin and LOL!!

Merry Christmas Pauser! :santa:
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Strangelove
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Strangelove »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: The get along gang just keeps repeating the same nonsense about the cap not mattering when the team sucks all the while ignoring that the cap may be part of the reason the team sucks .
So you expect the team to not have any suckage whatsoever whilst "rebuilding" to be a contender

... and you're going to criticize the fuck out of our fearless leader for any and all suckage along the way.

Merry Christmas Blobby!! :santa:

You will be visited by three spirits tonight...
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The_Pauser
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by The_Pauser »

Strangelove wrote:
... said that guy who pissed + moaned about every Sedin contract ever. :roll:

Short-term placeholder contracts don't mean much in a rebuild.

I like the long-term contracts he has given to Tanev + Sutter.

BTW every time I see you around the boards I think of Irwin and LOL!!

Merry Christmas Pauser! :santa:
Contracts given to Sbisa, Dorsett, and Miller were absolutely horrible. That does not suggest Benning has a clue with what he is doing. Furthermore, the Sutter contract was downright brutal. Not sure why you like giving a 5 year $4.375M/year deal to an average 3C, oh and don't forget the NTC, but to me that reeks of a bad and unnecessary contract.
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Strangelove
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Strangelove »

The_Pauser wrote: Contracts given to Sbisa, Dorsett, and Miller were absolutely horrible. That does not suggest Benning has a clue with what he is doing. Furthermore, the Sutter contract was downright brutal. Not sure why you like giving a 5 year $4.375M/year deal to an average 3C, oh and don't forget the NTC, but to me that reeks of a bad and unnecessary contract.
The Sbisa and Miller contracts are kinda high but... SHORT TERM.

(though Miller took a pay cut from what he was making on his previous contract)

(and Sbisa had to be overpaid or cut loose)

Sutter is not "an average 3C". :roll:

Sutter was top-6 in team minutes with the Pens and Canes every year for the last 6 seasons.

He is an elite checker + penalty killer.... and he's damn fine in the goalscoring department.

You ran away and hid at that other site because you were proven wrong over here OH so many times.

Some things never change...

So you admit you love the LONG TERM contract Benning got Tanev to sign? :mex:

STEVE IRWIN!!! :lol:
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the toucan kid
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by the toucan kid »

Contracts given to Sbisa, Dorsett, and Miller were absolutely horrible. That does not suggest Benning has a clue with what he is doing. Furthermore, the Sutter contract was downright brutal. Not sure why you like giving a 5 year $4.375M/year deal to an average 3C, oh and don't forget the NTC, but to me that reeks of a bad and unnecessary contract.
I'm not sure it means much of anything. We don't know what kind of faith they put behind those deals and what they were looking for out of those players. I think it's plausible, even likely, that they have a five/six year route map back to contending and right now they're signing deals for players who will adequately fill-in minutes and are good role models for young players. This would prevent young guys from getting exposed with too many minutes too early, but also give you vets you don't care about whose playing time can be reduced without much worry as the youngsters find their stride. If Sutter or Dorsett are guys that can talk Virt or Horvat into the gym and onto the ice instead of boozing and playing video games, there's organizational value there.

In that sense, cap management on a rebuilding team is a different best then on a contender.
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by The_Pauser »

Strangelove wrote:
The Sbisa and Miller contracts are kinda high but... SHORT TERM.

(though Miller took a pay cut from what he was making on his previous contract)

(and Sbisa had to be overpaid or cut loose)

Sutter is not "an average 3C". :roll:

Sutter was top-6 minutes in team minutes with the Pens and Canes every year for the last 6 seasons.

He is an elite checker + penalty killer.... and he's damn fine in the goalscoring department.

You ran away and hid at that other site because you were proven wrong over here OH so many times.

Some things never change...

So you admit you love the LONG TERM contract Benning got Tanev to sign? :mex:

STEVE IRWIN!!! :lol:
3 years is short-term now?

I would have been perfectly happy if we had cut Sbisa lose. The guy is a terrible defenseman. And Miller needed a much bigger cut from his previously (also overpaid) contract. The guy is a career average goalie with one season that can be considered an anomaly. He's now a below average goalie, and by some metrics he's a bottom 5 starter in the league.

Brandon Sutter's advanced metrics suggest he isn't a very good hockey player. I couldn't care less how much ice-time he gets. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want but it doesn't change the fact that it's still a pig. I guess you're just fixated on Sutter's 21 goal season last year (only 33 points mind you) and are willing to completely ignore what he's done in season's past. Oh well. Some people just don't have the intelligence to grasp the concept of advanced metrics and sample size.

The Tanev contract is decent, though likely would have been cheaper had Benning realized what he had and not given him that stupid 1-year "let's see" contract in 2014.

Cute you think you can troll me by continuing to say Steve Irwin. If you keep trying hard enough maybe you can pass high school too.
Last edited by The_Pauser on Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The_Pauser
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by The_Pauser »

the toucan kid wrote: I'm not sure it means much of anything. We don't know what kind of faith they put behind those deals and what they were looking for out of those players. I think it's plausible, even likely, that they have a five/six year route map back to contending and right now they're signing deals for players who will adequately fill-in minutes and are good role models for young players. This would prevent young guys from getting exposed with too many minutes too early, but also give you vets you don't care about whose playing time can be reduced without much worry as the youngsters find their stride. If Sutter or Dorsett are guys that can talk Virt or Horvat into the gym and onto the ice instead of boozing and playing video games, there's organizational value there.

In that sense, cap management on a rebuilding team is a different best then on a contender.
Linden and Benning have stated numerous times that they expected the team this year to be better than the one we had last year. They felt this could be better than a 100 point team, and could possibly make it to the second round of the playoffs. They've put their faith into bad hockey players, and have proven that their pro scouting is awful.

Furthermore, finding role players is good, but overpaying bad hockey players is not. Guys like Dorsett, Prust, Sbisa are replacement level players. Rather than wasting $8.75M on these guys I would rather sign cheaper vets to fill that "mentor" role (that has become quite a cliche since Benning was brought in).

Sutter signing for long-term with a NTC after being called a foundational player is absolutely laughable and hammers home the point that Benning doesn't have a clue what he's doing, nor does he have an eye for pro players. He's merely an average 3C who's good in the devensive zone, skates fast, and that's about it. He isn't physical, he isn't that good offensively, he doesn't elevate his linemates or drive puck possession. He's the type of guy you like to have on your team as a 3C or 4C making no more than $2-2.5M.
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Strangelove
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Strangelove »

It was fine to overpay Sbisa as a placeholder.

Miller is a proven veteran number one (can handle lotsa games/pressure)... that's how much these guys cost.

Sutter has averaged "21 goals" per 82 games over his long career thus far (in a defensive role).

Modern fancy stats are still severely flawed.

(mind you, they're probably much better than your eye-test)

I'm not trolling you by mentioning Irwin, it honestly still makes me laugh! :lol:

As does the fact that you've said the Sedins suck for a coupla decades now....
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The_Pauser
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by The_Pauser »

Strangelove wrote:It was fine to overpay Sbisa as a placeholder.

Miller is a proven veteran number one (can handle lotsa games/pressure)... that's how much these guys cost.

Sutter has averaged "21 goals" per 82 games over his long career thus far (in a defensive role).

Modern fancy stats are still severely flawed.

(mind you, they're probably much better than your eye-test)

I'm not trolling you by mentioning Irwin, it honestly still makes me laugh! :lol:
Why was it fine to overpay Sbisa? Could we not get a similar placeholder for $3M less? Why is it a good idea to just blow cap space like this?

Miller is also on the downside of his career. Giving him a top 10 cap hit among goalies for a guy who, going into that contract, was deemed an average goalie at best was not a smart idea. In fact, Miller's cap hit ranks 8th in the NHL, so saying "that's how much these guys cost" is incorrect. That's how much the top goalies cost. For the type of goaltending we're getting Miller is worth maybe $4-4.5M (around the same level as Hiller, Niemi who are good comparables). Instead we're overpaying for below average goaltending. What about this sounds good to you?

Sutter has averaged 16g/82 games (doesn't surprise me you can't do math though).

You can choose to ignore modern advanced metrics all you want, but the game is changing because of them. Sure they have their flaws, but to outright dismiss them is ignorant.
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote: The get along gang just keeps repeating the same nonsense about the cap not mattering when the team sucks all the while ignoring that the cap may be part of the reason the team sucks .
So you expect the team to not have any suckage whatsoever whilst "rebuilding" to be a contender

... and you're going to criticize the fuck out of our fearless leader for any and all suckage along the way.

Merry Christmas Blobby!! :santa:

You will be visited by three spirits tonight...
I never said that at all . I repeat ad nauseum for those who have trouble understanding : I hate the Vey and Baertschi trades and I don't agree with grossly overpaying players at any time regardless of whether the team is good or not . I have tried to engage posters about whether the current cap management will have any bearing on the future cap management . IE can Benning put a proper value on payer contracts and not continue to fuck up the cap in the future ? All I get is doh Ballard and Booth sucks blah blah blah like it has anything to do with the topic at hand .
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Pauser, shouldn't you Blobby, IN be over at the Hockeysfuture "Jim Benning RUINED my LIFE!" Thread? You will find that there are a good many shoulders there to lean on, if you need to cry all over someone's shirt collar regarding our great fearless leader Jimbo Benning

Holy fuck, 1.5 seasons into his tenure here and Jim is an IDIOT! That's a lotta rope there for a guy trying to fix the fucking shit show the UVIC professor left behind
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

Again skirting the issue with nonsense .
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Re: Jim help the twins

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Blob Mckenzie wrote: If you would rather have Baertschi and Vey than Roland Mckeown and Rasmus Andersson good for you . .
Come on Ball Season we don't know who we would have drafted with those two seconds. Who the fuck cares,'we are getting some service out of Vey and Baertschi. In fact would you not agree that Baertschi is actually playing pretty good hockey for us.

Gillis 6 second round picks - 3 traded away, Rodin, Mallet and Sauve. LOL.'How did you like the 2nd round return on Steve Bernier (and a 3rd!)'and Derek Roy?' LOL actually we could use Connauton right (Gillis tossed him in with the 2nd to get ROY) isn't he a regular on the Blue Jackets blue line now?
DOYLE WOULD’VE RATHER HAD KEVIN HAYES AT 7 YEARS 7 MILLION PER INSTEAD OF J.T. MILLER FOR A LATE 1ST RD PICK
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Re: Jim help the twins

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Tri Cities how you liking the $6.5 million tied up in Burrows and Higgins right now? And we have another left on their contracts with full NTC's after this year LOL. Mikey's legacy. You think there is a Mike Gillis out there who would take over those contracts for us?
DOYLE WOULD’VE RATHER HAD KEVIN HAYES AT 7 YEARS 7 MILLION PER INSTEAD OF J.T. MILLER FOR A LATE 1ST RD PICK
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