2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:25 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote:Not sure why we're so hung up on wasted 2nd Rounders.
I guess those picks have the potential to pan out into a good player. Most fans here tend to like the players JB drafts with his picks; we like his scouting background and his ability to evaluate young players. Plus, he likes draft picks right? Why not just keep em and use em rather than trade em for garbage. For whatever reason, he just tends to pay a premium to acquire picks (ie: Lack for pick), but when he trades one of his picks, he doesn't seem to get very much value in return (ie: pick for Vey). That is super frustrating for fans.

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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:51 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Nuckertuzzi wrote:Not sure why we're so hung up on wasted 2nd Rounders.
I guess those picks have the potential to pan out into a good player. Most fans here tend to like the players JB drafts with his picks; we like his scouting background and his ability to evaluate young players. Plus, he likes draft picks right? Why not just keep em and use em rather than trade em for garbage. For whatever reason, he just tends to pay a premium to acquire picks (ie: Lack for pick), but when he trades one of his picks, he doesn't seem to get very much value in return (ie: pick for Vey). That is super frustrating for fans.

He traded a third for Dorsett, hardly garbage.

He traded a second for Baertschi, too early to tell if he wasted a second on a former first round pick.

He traded a second for Vey, by all accounts, thus far, a bust but great for Utica :mrgreen:

A number of other picks swapped out. And so far he has gotten little for assets traded, but look at who he has had to trade.


What people always want to forget when doing this analysis is why he felt it necessary to give up these picks. We had a gaping hole in our prospect pool. He tried, in one year, to replenish that area with mid level talent. Good enough, so the hope went, to hold down the fort until draft picks developed, with hopefully a surprise or two in the mix. He also had to deal with a boatload of NTC. So of course he wasn't going to get full and fair market value for Garrison, Kesler and Bieksa. No one wanted Kassian but he still managed to get something, something that helps us a lot sooner than a fifth in 2016 would.

We have 5 rookies starting on opening day. Probably 3 more than anyone anticipated, well except if Hutton wasn't ready Corrado would be there. The only forwards left from MG tenure are the Sedins, Hansen, Burrows, Higgins. In one year! Both goalies are new and half our defence is changed.

And the Lack argument again. No one was willing to pay more than we got, and we got two draft picks for him. I doubt Markstrom would have gotten us that much and Miller was not going to be traded.

I have concerns too about all the picks he has given up but I understand every deal he has made. I do hope though he starts to collect picks moving foward.

I have cap concerns but I know we have a ton of cap coming off the books next year, and the next and the next.

How exciting is it to see Benning's first two Canuck draft picks start the season. The future is a lot closer than a lot of people think.
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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:53 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote: Asset management vs. competitive culture. Tough one but ultimately the right choice, a no-brainer really.

Forget top 4, Hutton imo was easily among their best d-men from Youngstars through camp and pre-season. They may have gone about making room for him a better way than risk Corrado, but it would've been absolutely wrong to send down the guy who blew away competition and vets. Doesn't matter if you could call him up any time..sending him down now is just flat out wrong.

Plus, I think they want to win now (to the dismay of draftists like myself) and he could clearly help. Isn't that the point?
Yeah, it'll definitely be an interesting first 9 games to see how Hutton and our other 2 rookies peform in the true NHL when games count for real. They'll be playing against real NHLers every nite, sink or swim. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to young players. I just fear giving young talented teenaged players too much, too fast can destroy their careers (ie: Gilbert Brule). I generally like to see prospects slowly go through the ropes, bide their time, hone their skills, and develop physically and mentally before thrusting them into the NHL. I think a year or 2 in the AHL is a great thing for most prospects. There are a few guys who we brought along this way recently and they turned out to be pretty good NHLers (ie: Schneids, Lack, and Tanev).

I also don't like the fact that we could lose Corrado for nothing. Here's another guy who we spent a few years to develop, he's probably more NHL ready than he's ever been and now we put him on waivers. Speaking of Tanev, Corrado looks like he has the potential to be that kind of player.

Anyways, I'll agree that these guys played well and deserve to stay for now. Whether they stay pass 9 games will be another story. I'm sure us fans and managment will be watching these 3 doods closely. :P

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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:12 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Nuckertuzzi wrote:Not sure why we're so hung up on wasted 2nd Rounders.
I guess those picks have the potential to pan out into a good player. Most fans here tend to like the players JB drafts with his picks; we like his scouting background and his ability to evaluate young players. Plus, he likes draft picks right?

Yeah maybe so. The thinking is maybe JB has better luck with his 2nd's than previous regimes' and thus they may actually be worth something.

I still think getting the little we got out of what turned out to be a longshot in Vey was probably about as good as we could've hoped for drafting that pick, given the odds and our history. So for me it's a wash..a gamble that didn't pan out. I won't lose sleep over it.

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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:31 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
He traded a third for Dorsett, hardly garbage.
Yeah, I do like Dorsett's hustle, character and grit; however, I dunno, he's just a bit too small to properly perform that role when he has to stand up against the true heavyweights. I don't doubt that he'll show up when it's needed, but I remember in the playoffs, he just didn't have the muscle to go against the big boyz. There was that game where there was a scrum and he was in the corner against a Flames guy, our designated tuff guy, Danny Boy Hamhuis had to rush over to help him out. Man, that was sad to watch.

Then there was what the young punk Ferland did vs what the cage vet Dorsett did. Boy, no contest. Ferland destroyed us. He was running around hitting our D, throwing our guys off their game, causing turnovers. Just ask Bieksa what he did to us (and him), although Juice would probably downplay it. *hehe. Dorsett? Gotta say, hardly noticed him, a non-factor. The Flame tuff guys and D just laughed at him.
He traded a second for Baertschi, too early to tell if he wasted a second on a former first round pick.
Agreed, too early to say. But honestly, I think we already had players similar to that lvl and ilk in Jensen and Shinkaruk (redundant: see Vey coming up). I'll probably get flamed for this one as there's a lot of Baertschi fans, but I'm never afraid to say what I think. :P
He traded a second for Vey, by all accounts, thus far, a bust but great for Utica :mrgreen:
Yeah, who knows. Best case scenario Vey passes waivers and plays great and rises in the depth charts again like Markstrom. *hehe* But, I never liked Vey. Even when we traded for him, I checked his stats and my first thought was: too small. Plus, we had Hank, Bones, Richie, Mathias already in the NHL; we had a ton of good young centres in the system with BoHo, McCann, Cassels + Gaunce. Really didn't see the need for Vey. As the season went on, it was apparent this move was to appease the Coach Willie D.

Vey ended up playing a bit on the wing and a bit on the 4th line, but he's not a good fit for a 4th liner. I'm glad they're finally doing it right by getting a guy like Cracknell to play there. Even Gaunce would be a better fit in that spot.

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Re: 2015 - 2016 Vancover Canucks Training Camp Roster

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:05 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I generally like to see prospects slowly go through the ropes, bide their time, hone their skills, and develop physically and mentally before thrusting them into the NHL. I think a year or 2 in the AHL is a great thing for most prospects.
Preaching to the choir, my friend. I'm the most patient fan there is when it comes to our young players and know full well the potential damage giving players a spot who aren't quite ready could do to their development.

In the case of the two 19 year olds there is definitely a fear of that. That's what the luxury of the 9 games is for. They've earned at least that and it'll likely turn out they aren't ready. And that's fine, but what if they are? The same way Bo proved it last year and since. You don't just bring kids along slowly because that's the tried and true method..there are exceptions and you're doing yourself a dis-service by not finding out. The Flames maybe rob themselves and their fans of their magical season last year if they stuck to the conventional way of developing youth.

In Ben's case, he's 22. Not only does he look ready for the bigs, he looks like he could be a difference maker NOW. He belongs..let him prove it and if he proves otherwise, so be it. But letting him start in the A now to save Corrado is like sending Tanev or Hamhuis down. Does that make sense?

Sometimes you have to throw convention out the window. It's unbelievably good news that we got three guys (4 in 2years) forcing us to do that and it's not by fluke.

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