Jim Ignitowski Benning

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Strangelove
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Strangelove »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Strangelove wrote:... and Todd wandering around just outside post-op...

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LOL. Well who is playing the role of James Franciscus ?

Dbr ?
Ahhh, you've seen this movie before...

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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by damonberryman »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Topper wrote:WTF IN, your stupidity has has no bounds.

Transition is NOT a flip the switch.

As I understand you and Blobby, the endless Oiler rebuild is what you favour. Tank for draft place, dump all vets for picks and give the keys to the prepubescent.
I have never proposed endless tanking or dumping all of the vets . I said move Hamhuis and Vrbata because Ignitowski has already hinted he won't sign them . Is it better to let them walk for nothing ? Seems kind of stupid to me . I say let the team slide into the ditch for a season while getting some kids some decent ice time . You and Doc and the tranny lover seem to be all right with Iggy making dumb trades and giving away assets for pennies on the dollar just to "transition" . I'd rather see value obtained than Elmer getting ass fucked in every deal .
What is wrong with trannies? My car will not move without one. :? :?: :?:
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by damonberryman »

Dr. Tobias Funke wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Well Blob, Benning has told us repeatedly why he brought Miller in, in the first place. He wants a proven, number one, elite goaltender to be our starter. We did not have that in the Lack/Markstrom combo last year and highly doubtful it would be any different this year.

Why you may ask did Benning want a proven, elite starter? Well he has repeatedly answered that one too. We are not in a rebuild but are in transition from the old core as we identify who we believe will make up our new core and while undergoing this transition he wants to bring the younger players up in a system that values winning. He wants to have a culture of winning because as we all know THERE IS NO SWITCH to just turn on when the transition is over. He wants to stay competitive which a chance to win on any given night. He wants the team to be in a playoff hunt every year. He wants to go deeper in the playoffs than an embarrassing first round beat down by the Flames.

But you and IN know all this. So it isn't a matter of questioning why he is doing what he is doing. It is a matter of you disagreeing that he should be doing what he is doing. You're right, if his goal was a rebuild then bringing Miller in, trading Lack and other moves make little sense. But his goals were not rebuilding.

Rinse, repeat, rinse :mrgreen:
How does it benefit the team to apply this to the goaltending position, where only one can play at a time. Why trade the better, younger, cheaper option when you already have Sedin, Sedin, Burrows, Vrbata, Higgins, Prust, Dorsett, Hamhuis, Edler, Sutter, Hansen all with 7+ years of experience? Last year's Oilers we are not.

I understand and even agree with the idea of supplementing youth with veteran leadership and character. I do not see the benefit to the team, short- and long-term for liquidating an appreciating asset at a firesale price (I've been through this before, but the arguments Benning himself have provided that Lack would cost a lot of money to keep in his UFA years and that the entire league thinks of Lack as a backup violently contradict each other and suggest that this was a political move over all else).

Yes Markstrom may pan out, and boy do I hope he does, but that doesn't justify dumping Lack a la Kassian just because he has "been there" before (note - the last time he "was there" for more than one series was in 2007, when he was wait for it...the same age as Lack). In fact, the last time Miller posted a winning record in the playoffs was that same year. A young goalie can't build a resume without being given an opportunity. We went through this before with the Luongo fans when Schneider was blossoming too.
I do not think Lack will ever be a true front line goalie. He is too mentally stable.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

An interesting perspective:

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bu ... -1.2191686

I look forward to the rebuttal from the Benning advocates.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:An interesting perspective:

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bu ... -1.2191686

I look forward to the rebuttal from the Benning advocates.
The sad thing is many of Benning's acquisitions fail the eye test too.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Topper »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:An interesting perspective:

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bu ... -1.2191686

I look forward to the rebuttal from the Benning advocates.
LOL, that article doesn't pass any statistical analysis test.

Classic case of not doing proper analysis of the data and then letting the data tell the story.

Pass It to Bulis is a humour column isn't it.

Just for starters, look at the number of games used to draw the conclusions......I've previously done a back of the envelope calculation that a bare minimum of 2/3rds of a season and likely 3/4rs of a season's data is needed to make these remotely relevant.

Remember the basic premise to these stats is that there simply isn't enough goals in a season to make a goal based stat relevant so shots are substituted for goals..........but don't mention the circular logic in this premise.

But at what point do shot totals mimic goals to reduce the effect of outliers skewing data since there is no variography or top cut analysis. Hell, I haven't even seen them do a simple T test.

So we can eliminate from the pre acquisition side of the chart
Vey
Clendenning
Bearcheese

and from the post acquisition side of the chart we take out
Bartkowski
Etem
Cracknell
Clendenning - again
Prust
Larsen
Bearcheese - again
McMillian
Glandlund

So that leaves,
Verbata whose stats look like a wash pre and post acquisition.
Dorsett, who may have dropped but is close to even.
Bonino, who improved and was traded away for assets.......and remember we aren't allowed to look at playoff performance because that is "intangible".
Sbisa, who shows a slight improvement.

Good work Danny Wagner. LOL
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Arachnid »

Topper wrote:
Ronning's Ghost wrote:An interesting perspective:

http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bu ... -1.2191686

I look forward to the rebuttal from the Benning advocates.
LOL, that article doesn't pass any statistical analysis test.

Classic case of not doing proper analysis of the data and then letting the data tell the story.

Pass It to Bulis is a humour column isn't it.

Just for starters, look at the number of games used to draw the conclusions......I've previously done a back of the envelope calculation that a bare minimum of 2/3rds of a season and likely 3/4rs of a season's data is needed to make these remotely relevant.

Remember the basic premise to these stats is that there simply isn't enough goals in a season to make a goal based stat relevant so shots are substituted for goals..........but don't mention the circular logic in this premise.

But at what point do shot totals mimic goals to reduce the effect of outliers skewing data since there is no variography or top cut analysis. Hell, I haven't even seen them do a simple T test.

So we can eliminate from the pre acquisition side of the chart
Vey
Clendenning
Bearcheese

and from the post acquisition side of the chart we take out
Bartkowski
Etem
Cracknell
Clendenning - again
Prust
Larsen
Bearcheese - again
McMillian
Glandlund

So that leaves,
Verbata whose stats look like a wash pre and post acquisition.
Dorsett, who may have dropped but is close to even.
Bonino, who improved and was traded away for assets.......and remember we aren't allowed to look at playoff performance because that is "intangible".
Sbisa, who shows a slight improvement.

Good work Danny Wagner. LOL
Yeah PITB is always good for a larf but it's about as deep as RumBums pledge to stay off Zika STI drugs in prison....
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Aaronp18 »

Topper wrote: LOL, that article doesn't pass any statistical analysis test.

Good work Danny Wagner. LOL
As Topper so eloquently put it, the sample size is really quite poor to be making any sort of conclusions based on these advanced stats.

Another issue with these types of stats, especially shot percentage for/against, is they don't take into account the role a player has on a team. Now again, sample size is shit but lets look at Brandon Sutter. With Pittsburgh he was the third line centre, out often against the other teams top lines and played a huge role killing penalties. These are 5 on 5 stats I know, but if you're out killing penalties it will reduce your 5 on 5 icetime. His stats seem to be trending up, but I won't draw conclusions because of the sample size. However, this is what many of us predicted would happen given a much different role in Vancouver than the icetime he saw in Pittsburgh.

Sutter's offensive zone vs. defensive zone starts is staggering, and anyone with half a brain could see why his advanced stats were shit up until this season when he has actually started more in the offensive zone than the defensive zone for the first time since his rookies season.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players ... nced::none

There were people using advanced stats in an attempt to prove Bonino was a better player than Sutter. I'm sure these same people actually never watched these two play hockey!

Advanced stats should be taken with a grain of salt and compared to the different situations of the individual players. This seems to be Benning's approach.

Oh, and I like the assumption they are making that because they don't know who the Canucks hire for statistical analysis that the Canucks are ignoring them all together. :roll:

Come back with these stats in a few years when the Canucks are no longer re-building but rather competing for playoff position and we'll see how they look.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Hockey Widow »

Why do they call them advanced stats anyway? Is it to give the impression that they are better stats?

Wasn't that long ago that a centre was judged by his face off %. The higher the % the better a centre he was. And while an important stat we all know it ignored a lot of other tangible markers.

A good solid fourth line player was judged by number of hits or willingness to drop the gloves. Not anymore, he has to be able to do more than that.

The point is that stats are a tool but there is no substitute for watching a player play. Personally I don't understand these advanced stats anyway. I really don't know what they mean so I guess I'm old school, or just old.

Let's not become like baseball where we count how many times a player grabs his jock or picks his nose or spits his tobacco. Do we suck in advanced stats because we suck in advanced stats or is something else in play? I dunno, I don't understand advanced stats.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Strangelove »

Topper, Aaron, nice job pointing out some of the flaws/limitations in today's fancy stats. :thumbs:

Did you know there are vast sections of hockey fandom where fancy stats are the one true God?

Seriously, in some places fancy stats aren't the main thing, they're the Only Thing.

Yeah, it's turned the minds of many to mush and lead them into blind hysteria.

Tragic really.

If only they had instead put their faith in a great man like Jim Benning...
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Topper »

Hockey Widow wrote:Why do they call them advanced stats anyway? Is it to give the impression that they are better stats?
Think of a friend who has just become a born again christian and wants to convert everyone he has ever known to his new found faith. That is the zeal of these zealots

There is definitely something do be said for greater analysis of the game and we have easy computing power to put that in place. One can not lose sight of basic statistical methods and tests of the data prior to doing any analysis. Simple questions. Is the data valid?, Is there enough data to analyse? Simple data verification tools are ignored.

The real place for this is in the minor leagues, do CHL, AHL, KHL, SEL stats imply or mimic NHL success? That was a key of Bill James work in baseball when he was able to find a metric that predicted major league performance.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Hockey Widow »

Topper wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Why do they call them advanced stats anyway? Is it to give the impression that they are better stats?
Think of a friend who has just become a born again christian and wants to convert everyone he has ever known to his new found faith. That is the zeal of these zealots

There is definitely something do be said for greater analysis of the game and we have easy computing power to put that in place. One can not lose sight of basic statistical methods and tests of the data prior to doing any analysis. Simple questions. Is the data valid?, Is there enough data to analyse? Simple data verification tools are ignored.

The real place for this is in the minor leagues, do CHL, AHL, KHL, SEL stats imply or mimic NHL success? That was a key of Bill James work in baseball when he was able to find a metric that predicted major league performance.
You're the only one who makes sense of these stats for me. I really don't get them and don't care too but I always enjoy reading your posts on them!
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by 5thhorseman »

Topper wrote:There is definitely something do be said for greater analysis of the game and we have easy computing power to put that in place. One can not lose sight of basic statistical methods and tests of the data prior to doing any analysis. Simple questions. Is the data valid?, Is there enough data to analyse? Simple data verification tools are ignored.
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Just for Elmer
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Re: Jim Ignitowski Benning

Post by Chef Boi RD »

We are all Jim Benning
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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