Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by SKYO » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:01 pm

Hank wrote:Bad juju man. You can't draft a hockey player named Pilon.
lol yup, there would be too many Dana Murzyn quips.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:42 am

dangler wrote:Not impressed with Bennings draft performance at all. He might as well held on to Lack for all he got,didn't recover the 2nd he traded away (better hope Baertschi works out this fall). And announces he went hard after Lucic!!

I'm starting to think he's a little too hung up on players he's drafted in the past, with Millers contract (he didn't look to be much better than Lack last season),
Yeah, I'm starting to wonder a bit with JB as well. His strengths seems to be in scouting young players, but I'm starting to question his ability in making trades and signing players. His ability to maximize returns of his assets is a big question mark. For example, he gives up a 2nd rounder for a good AHLer, but fringe NHLer (Vey) and for a 3rd rounder he gets a 4th liner player (Dorsett). In my opinion, those guys are a dime a dozen and can be easily acquired through free agency, waiver wire and minor trades. He has a good young NHL goalie in Lack and all he can get is a 3rd rounder? I think Lack is a way better player than Vey and Dorsett. I know different positons and stuff, but still, Lack should have way more value than those 2. JB doesn't seem to be a very good poker player. Just before the draft, he reveals that he plans to keep Miller and move one of his goalies. It's like he's revealing his hand before even he gets to the poker table. Doh! :stupid: Carolina knew what he wanted to do and just waited it out till he was desperate and threw some scraps his way. As someone said, it comes across like he's a bit of a simpleton.

His record on contract negotiations is questionable as well. OK, so he gets rid of Garrison cuz Garrison was making too much @$4.5M, so he looks like a guy who uses his cap dollars wisely; however, like half a year later, he goes ahead and gives Dorsett $2.6M and Sbisa $3.6M, a bit high for a couple role players. Giving a 3 year deal @ $6M/per to an aging goalie (MIller) is looking like a contract that will hurt the franchise as well, as it essentially hampered our ablity to hold on to a great young goalie in Eddie Lack. I think I like JB as a chief scout and maybe an Assistant General Manager, but not sure it's a good thing to have him as our acting GM and head boss. I know Linden is the Prez and all, but Trev seems to lean on JB for all the hockey moves. Trev seems inexperienced in his position and is more of a figure head for the franchise, JB calls all the shots. I'd much prefer a GM like Pat Quinn or Brian Burke, 2 guys who nobody wants to mess with (player wise and other GMs), tough negotiators on trades and contracts.

OK, on to my Eddie Lack Attack Pack. I think the Lack trade deserves it's own thread as he became a popular player in his short time here, but whatever. I know I'm biased and I luv the guy. I was disappointed on 2 fronts, just the fact that we traded him and the little that we got in return. I would have liked to get rid of Miller and sign Lack to a long term deal. It soon became clear that no one wanted Miller with his contract. I'd take Lack over any of the goalies we've had the past couple years. I'd take him over the aging stars Miller and Bobby Lou. Miller's and Lou's best years are behind them, Lack is pretty much in his prime and I expect him to get better. I'd even take him over Cory Schneids. Again, I know I'm biased, but I think their abilities on the ice are pretty close, but Lack is 2 years younger and his personalilty and attitude gives him the edge.

I know Benning & Co are really high on Marky Mark. I'm intrigued with his potential as well. He actually might have a higher ceiling than Lack as he was a better goalie of the 2 when they were in Sweden, he was a 2nd round pick, was considered one of the top goaltending prospects at one point, dominated the AHL last sesason and Sweden called upon him to represent to play a couple times in those tournys. It's a pretty impressive resume, but when Marky Mark has been given the ball in the NHL, he has stumbled. Florida gave up on him for a reason and he had a horrible debut for us last season. We'll see, Markstrom is a question mark. I can see him becoming a very good NHL goalie, even better than Lack; however, I can also see him becoming one of those guys -- who for whatever reason -- that just cannot deliver in the NHL.

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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:18 am

Hey Todd, why do you say it became clear no one wanted Miller and his contract. As far as we know he was never on the trade block. From the time Benning signed him he has been our number one. So much so that he was put into playoff service when he probably shouldn't have been. From the time the season ended Benning has made it clear Miller was still our number one and he wasn't being traded.

I know it's popular for people to pontificate that Miller isn't tradable, that no one wants him but it came out at the end of the season that he had several suitors but the Canucks offered the combination of salary, term and a partial NTC. Other teams were offering, good term but not as much salary or good salary but less term. He wanted a full NMC but settled for a modified NTC. The Canucks went after him a little harder that some teams is all.

By the way the Canucks received inquiries regarding all three goalies prior to the draft. Now I don't have any inside as to the nature of those inquires, just saying. It's popular for some to speculate that if Benning had a taker for Miller it would have saved us Eddie. Don't buy it. From the time Benning arrived he wanted to upgrade in net. He has never been sold on Lack.

Has never waivered from his position that Miller is still the number one. It's fantasy to think we are stuck with Miller because he is not tradable. We are stuck with Miller, if stuck is your preference, because Benning wants him on the team.

Bad UFA signing? Perhaps. But Benning wanted him and he made sure he got him. Without Miller we don't make the playoffs. Markstrom was not ready for back up duty last year. And the year he had in Utica was a year he needed to hopefully get his game back. The fact they waived him was proof that they were willing to risk losing him and move forward with Miller and Lack. But he had a terrific season and they are now high on him, so much so that they made a business decision based upon FA status. Is it the right decision? Time will tell. I, like most, have strong apprehensions about going with Markstrom. I'm hoping he is the next Ben Bishop but I'm bracing for the eventuality that he is not.

I was ready for a Lack/Markstrom duo but coming from being a leaves fan and watching them ruin so many young goalies by rushing them, and seeing how Edmonton has been a true grave years for young goalies, I was kinda happy we played it the way we did. I liked the signing on that level. I do agree that it has helped cause our cap crunch and that is worry some.

But not tradable, Miller, like every other player, well most, is tradable. Depends upon what you want back. I just don't think the Canucks ever looked to move him so we don't really know. Far from saying it became obvious he wasn't. That's just fan talk for saying I don't like him or his contract or his cap or his age and therefore no one else wants him, obviously.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Uncle dans leg » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:36 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Hey Todd, why do you say it became clear no one wanted Miller and his contract. As far as we know he was never on the trade block. From the time Benning signed him he has been our number one. So much so that he was put into playoff service when he probably shouldn't have been. From the time the season ended Benning has made it clear Miller was still our number one and he wasn't being traded.

I know it's popular for people to pontificate that Miller isn't tradable, that no one wants him but it came out at the end of the season that he had several suitors but the Canucks offered the combination of salary, term and a partial NTC. Other teams were offering, good term but not as much salary or good salary but less term. He wanted a full NMC but settled for a modified NTC. The Canucks went after him a little harder that some teams is all.

By the way the Canucks received inquiries regarding all three goalies prior to the draft. Now I don't have any inside as to the nature of those inquires, just saying. It's popular for some to speculate that if Benning had a taker for Miller it would have saved us Eddie. Don't buy it. From the time Benning arrived he wanted to upgrade in net. He has never been sold on Lack.

Has never waivered from his position that Miller is still the number one. It's fantasy to think we are stuck with Miller because he is not tradable. We are stuck with Miller, if stuck is your preference, because Benning wants him on the team.

Bad UFA signing? Perhaps. But Benning wanted him and he made sure he got him. Without Miller we don't make the playoffs. Markstrom was not ready for back up duty last year. And the year he had in Utica was a year he needed to hopefully get his game back. The fact they waived him was proof that they were willing to risk losing him and move forward with Miller and Lack. But he had a terrific season and they are now high on him, so much so that they made a business decision based upon FA status. Is it the right decision? Time will tell. I, like most, have strong apprehensions about going with Markstrom. I'm hoping he is the next Ben Bishop but I'm bracing for the eventuality that he is not.

I was ready for a Lack/Markstrom duo but coming from being a leaves fan and watching them ruin so many young goalies by rushing them, and seeing how Edmonton has been a true grave years for young goalies, I was kinda happy we played it the way we did. I liked the signing on that level. I do agree that it has helped cause our cap crunch and that is worry some.

But not tradable, Miller, like every other player, well most, is tradable. Depends upon what you want back. I just don't think the Canucks ever looked to move him so we don't really know. Far from saying it became obvious he wasn't. That's just fan talk for saying I don't like him or his contract or his cap or his age and therefore no one else wants him, obviously.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:19 am

Old news about me being from Toronto. Well over 20+ years ago. Got stuck in Calgary for 3.5 years in the days when HNIC had one regional game on Saturday nights. Hated Calgary and the Flames so by default starting following the Canucks. Have been a Canucks fan ever since. Still hate Calgary and haven't cheered for the leaves since.

I can speak to those days in leaves land. Hell I still remember their last cup in '67 :mrgreen: That's how old I am. And yes, they ruined a ton of goalie prospects by rushing them all to the NHL well before they were ready. We used to say that when Ballard died, then we would rebuild and get a team. Same shit, different owners.

At least I saw the light, the evil of my ways and repented before it was too late :mrgreen: and I never, ever, once,cheered for the Flames while I served my three years in purgatory that is known as Calgary.

I like to think I have some unique perspectives to bring to the debate :mrgreen: : :mrgreen: having lived in the lands of two enemies and all.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Uncle dans leg » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:24 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Old news about me being from Toronto. Well over 20+ years ago. Got stuck in Calgary for 3.5 years in the days when HNIC had one regional game on Saturday nights. Hated Calgary and the Flames so by default starting following the Canucks. Have been a Canucks fan ever since. Still hate Calgary and haven't cheered for the leaves since.

I can speak to those days in leaves land. Hell I still remember their last cup in '67 :mrgreen: That's how old I am. And yes, they ruined a ton of goalie prospects by rushing them all to the NHL well before they were ready. We used to say that when Ballard died, then we would rebuild and get a team. Same shit, different owners.

At least I saw the light, the evil of my ways and repented before it was too late :mrgreen: and I never, ever, once,cheered for the Flames while I served my three years in purgatory that is known as Calgary.

I like to think I have some unique perspectives to bring to the debate :mrgreen: : :mrgreen: having lived in the lands of two enemies and all.
It's all good Wids. You can keep your Dave Keon jersey as long as you don't wear it any more :mrgreen:
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Aaronp18 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:55 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote: It's all good Wids. You can keep your Dave Keon jersey as long as you don't wear it any more :mrgreen:
Now there's a Semin cleanup rag if I've ever heard of one.

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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:25 pm

So Ottawa's Murray said he did not want to trade Lehner to a division rival and had other options he was exploring but Buffalo's Murray coveted Leherner and was willing to offer up the first AND take Legwand's contract to get him. Ottawa thought long and hard before making the deal but in the end recognized they got a great deal from a divisional rival so he pulled the trigger. He would not have traded Lehner to Buffalo without getting the premium he knew non divisional rivals would not offer.

But since we, the fans, know better, this is what went down leading up to the draft.

JB= Benning
M= Buffalo's Murray
W= Wilson
F= Francis
TL= Linden


JB: so listen Murray, we want your 31st and will give you Lack
M: no, no Jim. We will offer you the 21st overall pick for Lack
JB: Mur, no can do. Lack isn't worth a first and we have been coveting your 31st. We spent time planning on who will will pick with that number
M: No Jim, I need my 31 for a deal I'm working on with Colorado for ROR.
JB: but Mur, if you give us the 31st you will still have the 21st to make a better deal with the AVS.
M: no Jim, I'm firm. Take the 1st or no deal
JB: I can't Mur, Lack just isn't worth it, please just give me your second.
M: Sorry Jim, no can do.


J: Trev I don't know what's going on (explains the call)
TL: Fuck him Jim. We won't take an over payment. Call Wilson.

J: Hey Willy, how's it hanging. I know we fucked up the Bieksa deal, you know negotiating in the press and all but are you still talking to me.
W: Jim, I said a second in 2016. Stop lying. I don't make mistakes
J: I know Willy, I know. I screwed it up. But listen. I'm calling about Lack
W: Glad you called Jim. I was just thinking I'd give your our first in 2016 plus a prospect for Lack.
J: Willy, no can do. That's an over payment for Lack and besides I really want your second this year. I know I messed up Bieksa but I still want that pick.
W: Jm, no way I give up this year's second for Lack. If I wasn't going to do it for Bieksa I ain't doing it for Lack. Take the first next year and a prospect. It's a good deal
J: can't Willy, my fans want action now and besides its too much
W: go fuck yourself Jim. You screwed with me on Bieksa and now you are confusing me on Lack. Take it now or its off the table and you get nothing.
J: I'll take my chances that something better will come along.

J: Trev, I dunno what to do. We planned on a second and all I am getting is offers for a first. I wasn't prepared for this.
T: Well Jim. You're the GM. But I think just hold on until the morning. Offers will improve.
J: But I want a second now, wtf am I supposed to do with a first.
T: Let's leak it to the press.mi'm sure that will help
J: Good idea. Now I see why you are the prez

F: Jim, Ron here.listen I want Lack but all I got is a second next year.
J: Ron, WTF. It's too late. I waited to long. Wish I had called earlier. If I wanted a second next year I could have traded Bieksa to SJS.
F:How about a second next year
J: Too, much, too late. How about a third this year. I told the fans I'd get a second and a third this year so if I get the third then I can spin it.
F: Sure.what a steal. Consider it done. Look can I offer you a 5-6 nextt year to make up for your stupidity.
J: No, no, that's too much. But you know, a 7th next year would help. I can really spin that with the fans, tell em we got two picks for Eddie, they like him you know.
F: Ya, that's why I want him. It will give our fans something to cheer about.

J: Trev, I did it. I mean I waited too long, turned down numerous better offers, but in the end I got a third this year and, get this, Ronnie threw in a 7th next year so we could put a positive spin on it.
T: Jim, that's great. Listen man, you're still learning. Good job.

J: it's hard Trev. I mean I had to turn down so many great offers because they were over payments.then I thought well if I wait, if they are offering that now the price will go up so I'll wait but then I waited too long and almost got shut out but in the end two picks. Not bad. Stupid GMs. I'm gawd.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Reefer2 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:22 pm

^^^ Hey HW Jack Nickolson could play Benning.

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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Topper » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:47 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:So Ottawa's Murray said he did not want to trade Lehner to a division rival and had other options he was exploring but Buffalo's Murray coveted Leherner and was willing to offer up the first AND take Legwand's contract to get him. Ottawa thought long and hard before making the deal but in the end recognized they got a great deal from a divisional rival so he pulled the trigger. He would not have traded Lehner to Buffalo without getting the premium he knew non divisional rivals would not offer.
The deal with Edmonton that didn't happen with Schneider.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:05 pm

Yeah sorry HW but Ryan Miller was a brutal ufa signing and nobody would trade for him unless the Canucks retained a huge chunk of his salary .
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:28 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Yeah sorry HW but Ryan Miller was a brutal ufa signing and nobody would trade for him unless the Canucks retained a huge chunk of his salary .

And you know this how? Everything Benning has said since he signed Miller was the he is the number one. Never once has he mentioned trading Miller or running with a Lack/Markstrom tandem.

I'm not justifying the signing Blob I'm just saying I doubt Benning ever considered moving Miller so it is just fan speak to say he couldn't be moved and certainly not without a retention.

Lack did not have the confidence of management nor the coach. Miller is the guy. Agree or disagree but that's where Benning is at. For the record, I was on board with the signing last year but after the playoffs, I was all in for moving Miller and going with Lack and Markstrom.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:37 pm

I agree with you that Benning won't move Miller . My pont was that he is an extremely average goalie pulling in huge coin . Who would want Miller unless the Canucks were picking up a huge chunk of his salary ? I can't see any team in the NHL where he would be an upgrade . I say drive the team right into the shitter and dump Hamhuis and Vrbata next . See if the twins would go to the Predators .
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Hockey Widow » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:17 pm

So on Lucic. Just heard he gave the Bruins a two team list. Dallas and the Canucks. He was 75% sure he was headed to Vancouver, his wife really wanted to come back. But the deal with Vancouver fell apart, don't know why and Dallas wasn't buying. At the last minute LA came knocking and he agreed to waive to go there. He and his wife are renting for the year. Will explore an extension with LA but still has interest in coming to Vancouver. Once LA knew they could free up cap they came hard for Lucic.
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Re: Draft Day 2015: Picks & Trades

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:35 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Hey Todd, why do you say it became clear no one wanted Miller and his contract. As far as we know he was never on the trade block.
Well, I heard some analysts say it, can't remember who. There was talk that the Sharks might bite, but then it came out that Wilson was more interested in a younger guy around Lack's age. Can't think of any other teams that might want Miller or teams that Miller would be willing to waive his NT to.

Hockey Widow wrote:So on Lucic. Just heard he gave the Bruins a two team list. Dallas and the Canucks. He was 75% sure he was headed to Vancouver, his wife really wanted to come back. But the deal with Vancouver fell apart, don't know why and Dallas wasn't buying. At the last minute LA came knocking and he agreed to waive to go there. He and his wife are renting for the year. Will explore an extension with LA but still has interest in coming to Vancouver. Once LA knew they could free up cap they came hard for Lucic.
That'd be awesome. I would luv to see JB go after him and this is one guy I wouldn't mind overpaying a bit. I think Looch and Buffy are the only 2 guys in the league I wouldn't mind overpaying. Hopefully that mutual respect Looch and JB have for each other is true. :D

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