Too many centers

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Carlyee
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Carlyee » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:04 pm

Arachnid wrote:
Topper wrote:
Suck it up Mathowny, this thread is the bastard offspring of an imbecile.
Yeah, it's like posting that Josh Holden will be the next Leader/Captain of the Canucks future :evil:
Holden had all the tools. Except for the grey matter to pull it all together.

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Topper
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Topper » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:49 pm

Carlyee wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
Topper wrote:
Suck it up Mathowny, this thread is the bastard offspring of an imbecile.
Yeah, it's like posting that Josh Holden will be the next Leader/Captain of the Canucks future :evil:
Holden had all the tools. Except for the grey matter to pull it all together.
Put a screeching halt to the debate.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:51 pm

Carlyee wrote:Holden had all the tools. Except for the grey matter to pull it all together.
I think Higgy is the type of player Holden should of became in the NHL. I dunno, I think Holden had good all around skills, but wasn't elite lvl in any one area. Some injuries and change in mangement didn't work for him. He also didn't seem to have the desire to play every game in the NHL like it was his last (ie: Santorelli + Matt Cooke who worked hard every nite).

As far as our centres go, I'm pretty happy with Hank, Bonino, Matthias, Richardson (Vey/Horvat). I don't think it's as good as when we have Hank in his prime, a healthy Kes + Malhorta and LapDawg. We're probably not as good as some of the elite teams like Chicago, Los Angeles, San Jose, but it's pretty good to throw out against most teams most nites.

Diehard1
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Diehard1 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:27 pm

mathonwy wrote:A tad early possibly and I personally blame diehard1.

When diehard1 mentioned Kyle Wellwood, I had some bad flashbacks. He said he was pretty happy on picking up Vey... :D and then he said Kyle Wellwood... :scowl:

It got me thinking about whether Vey was too good to be true and if Vey didn't fit on the Kings team then maybe Lombardi knows something we don't.

I guess we'll see over the next 80 games!

Ok, nothing to see here. Carry on carrying on.
Happy to help start a discussion - will be a talking point this year for sure. My guess is we will see Hank, Bonino, Horvat and Matthias as the centres with the other guys at wing but who knows.

I had no problem with Wellwood, thought he was underrated. Yep he was a tweeners but a skilled one who could make plays. Vey seems along the same line though I've only seen him in 3 games so it's very early.

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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Diehard1 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:30 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Carlyee wrote:Holden had all the tools. Except for the grey matter to pull it all together.
I think Higgy is the type of player Holden should of became in the NHL. I dunno, I think Holden had good all around skills, but wasn't elite lvl in any one area. Some injuries and change in mangement didn't work for him. He also didn't seem to have the desire to play every game in the NHL like it was his last (ie: Santorelli + Matt Cooke who worked hard every nite).

As far as our centres go, I'm pretty happy with Hank, Bonino, Matthias, Richardson (Vey/Horvat). I don't think it's as good as when we have Hank in his prime, a healthy Kes + Malhorta and LapDawg. We're probably not as good as some of the elite teams like Chicago, Los Angeles, San Jose, but it's pretty good to throw out against most teams most nites.
Holden's biggest issue was his wrist was slashed badly, cutting tendons. Was never the same afterwards. Too bad as I had high hopes back in those dark days when they were badly needed.

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Arachnid
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by Arachnid » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:36 pm

Topper wrote:
Carlyee wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
Topper wrote:
Suck it up Mathowny, this thread is the bastard offspring of an imbecile.
Yeah, it's like posting that Josh Holden will be the next Leader/Captain of the Canucks future :evil:
Holden had all the tools. Except for the grey matter to pull it all together.
Put a screeching halt to the debate.
My deepest apologies Gringo TopTop Image
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)

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mathonwy
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by mathonwy » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:48 pm

Arachnid wrote:
Topper wrote:
Suck it up Mathowny, this thread is the bastard offspring of an imbecile.
Yeah, it's like posting that Josh Holden will be the next Leader/Captain of the Canucks future :evil:
Yeah, its exactly like that Arachnid. Exactly.

What's this? A Pass It To Bulis article about the center position with Horvat's imminent return?

And holy shit. Is this a tweet from Ben Kuzma quoting Desjardins regarding the center position?

Image

No... way. :shock:

dbr
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by dbr » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:28 am

"Somebody will have to go to the wing" is not actually a problem, though.

I guess you could say we have too much depth down the middle, in an ultimately-meaningless-technicality sense where the quantity of centres on the roster is high but the quality of those centres is pretty low.

In the absolute best case (real world) scenario Bonino grabs the second line job and runs with it and both Horvat and Vey prove they can tread water in bottom six assignments..

But the vastly more likely scenario is that Bonino can produce but needs soft minutes to do it and the remaining group has trouble handling their assignments because it's made up of one or two kids (depending on whether Horvat sticks) and two other guys who are simply not every day top nine NHL forwards. Tasking Richardson and Matthias with a tough minutes third line job is basically asking them to do something they've never consistently done before, at an age where they're unlikely to take a big step forward in their abilities.

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herb
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by herb » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:47 am

dbr wrote:But the vastly more likely scenario is that Bonino can produce but needs soft minutes to do it and the remaining group has trouble handling their assignments because it's made up of one or two kids (depending on whether Horvat sticks) and two other guys who are simply not every day top nine NHL forwards. Tasking Richardson and Matthias with a tough minutes third line job is basically asking them to do something they've never consistently done before, at an age where they're unlikely to take a big step forward in their abilities.
Aaaaaaand boom goes the dynamite.

I like Matthias and Richardson for what they are (bottom six players who can score the odd goal, play a physical game, kill penalties, play spot duty on the 3rd line and Richardson can win some faceoffs), but in an ideal world Horvat should take over that 3rd line center position within a matter of months. On a good, deep team, guys like Richardson and Matthias are 4th liners who kill penalties and chip in offensively here and there. Richardson-Matthias-Dorsett would probably be an excellent 4th line.

Those weaknesses poster Dave has identified probably have contributed significantly to why Mr. Horvat is still around.

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herb
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by herb » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:05 am

Back to the main premise of this here thread, Hank is clearly our #1 center, and Bonino is clearly #2.

Vey is very much an experiment. We have no idea if he'll even be around come January, and if he is we have no indications that he cannot play on the wing (most if not all sources have him listed as a RW, anyway). Skilled guys who aren't particularly adept at taking faceoffs are usually fine on the wing.

Matthias is fine at center, except for on the dot, but from what I've seen I don't want him centering our third line. Fourth line please.

Richardson is in a similar position, except he happens to be our best faceoff guy (which is IMO why he's likely to stick around over other guys).

Finally, we have Horvat, who very much should and will play center when he draws in. He's our best prospect and was drafted to be that big minute two-way center, who can win faceoffs, draw touch assignments, etc. There's no way he moves to wing on a long-term basis unless he's an utter failure.

So, maybe on paper we have six centers, but in reality we have on excellent center in Hank, a good center in Bonino with some question marks in terms of his ability to take defensive zone starts, win faceoffs and draw tough assignments and then a bunch of question marks. I think we basically know what we have in Matthias and Richardson, which is why earlier I proposed putting them on the same line.

Vey and Horvat are unknowns at this point. Higgins-Horvat-Vey maybe? I'm loathe to play Vey with Bonino given they both have defensive question marks. Bonino's weaknesses can be sheltered a bit playing with guys like Burrows and Higgins, IMO. If Vey keeps putting up points, he needs to be in the lineup.

We're in quite a bit of trouble if Horvat is a flop.

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SKYO
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by SKYO » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:37 am

Hank
Bonino
Vey
Horvat

Richardson/Matthias on wing on the bottom 6, either one would be a good fit with Horvat so he can have a backup/mentor center/winger, giving injuries having richie/matty as depth centers is a vast improvement over last season where Richardson was our go-to #2 center if Kesler got injured lol.
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KeyserSoze
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by KeyserSoze » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:18 am

The Canucks have too much depth at centre like Betamax has too much class to pat himself on the back.

damonberryman
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Re: Too much depth down the center

Post by damonberryman » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:31 am

Tciso wrote:
damonberryman wrote:
rats19 wrote:I am having TOO much fun and Doc....has TOO much money
Carlyees car goes TOO fast

:crazy:
I somehow missed out on what happened to Horvat. I think he is on IR but can some one tell me for sure?
The most I have seen from the crappy web sites (I'm talking to you TSN and ESPN!) is he is listed as day to day. That's slightly better than no information. So, I don't expect season ending surgery....
thanks

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mathonwy
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Re: Too many centers

Post by mathonwy » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:18 pm

I've changed the name of the post. Thanks for everyone's feedback. Just a simple terminology issue (just like the "semi-blue" SNAFU). It really is amazing how certain posters can turn into a bully the moment they smell or perceive weakness. We're all adults here right? Here's a thought, instead of being an asshole, you could maybe PM me and say, hey I think you're using the word depth wrong. Or... you can continue being an asshole slash bully. Whatever floats your boat. That's what the block functionality is for.

Anyways...

We're still only 2 games in so its still pretty preliminary but in my opinion, Benning has a real issue to deal with with all the centers we have.

I see the Kings as the platinum standard organization in the NHL. They've won two cups in the last three years and all signs point to another cup soon. So I'm just guessing here but I think one of the reasons why Vey was let go was because the Kings are set down the center and he was deemed not strong or big enough to be an effective LA King NHL winger. As I posted above, the King's wingers average a certain height and weight and Vey is far far away from those numbers.

So my logic is, if Vey wasn't suitable for the Kings, do the Canucks play that different of a game that Vey would work for us? Again, only 2 games into the season so super preliminary. However, I would not be surprised if Vey is shipped out by December if Horvat starts playing well.

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Topper
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Re: Too many centers

Post by Topper » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:32 pm

THINK before posting.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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