2015 Draft Class watch

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 10036
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:32 pm

So how many picks will Ignitowski be able to pick up in this draft ? He is already down a 2nd and a 3rd . I wold assume Higgins and Lack can replace those. Will Bieksa be able to land a decent pick if moved ? I would be reluctant to trade Hamhuis as it would really gut the D but maybe that isn't a horrible thing if the goal is to tank . Dump Hamhuis and Vrbata and play Shisa in the top 4 and this is likely a bottom 3 team in the conference .

I hope they take Kyllington if he is there but I can see Benning drafting Carlo .
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 12629
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Hockey Widow » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:14 pm

Blob I'm curious. Do you think he did a good job last year at the draft?
The only HW the Canucks need

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 10036
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:02 am

I think he had a pretty decent draft HW . Along with the 2013 draft it gives the team a bit of a building block moving forward . What's killing the Canucks is the drafting from 2005-2012.

My pet peeve with Benning is the contracts for Miller , Dorsett and Sbisa . Well that and the pissing away of draft picks for older prospects that can't cut it in other organizations. Hopefully that trend stops moving forward .
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
Posts: 5817
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Meds » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:22 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I think he had a pretty decent draft HW . Along with the 2013 draft it gives the team a bit of a building block moving forward . What's killing the Canucks is the drafting from 2005-2012.

My pet peeve with Benning is the contracts for Miller , Dorsett and Sbisa . Well that and the pissing away of draft picks for older prospects that can't cut it in other organizations. Hopefully that trend stops moving forward .
I don't have too much of a problem with Dorsett's contract. Dorsett notched 25 points in a 4th line role, he led the team in hits and PIM, and was a valuable character player in the bottom-6 who has been credited with helping Horvat develop confidence and a pro work ethic. Benning overpaid by about $500K on that one, but he didn't hand out a NTC. Considering the way MG gave those out left and right to players who certainly should not have them, I would prefer that overpayment to the NTC.

Outta curiosity there Blobcat, would you prefer Dorsett at $2.5M over 4 years, or $2M over 4 years with a NTC?

I was torn on Miller at first, I always thought that as an individual, and with his talent level, he was a good fit for our team. I wasn't keen on the $6M, I figured that was $1M too high. However, we've heard that Miller initially wanted longer term and a full NTC, and Benning bumped up the dollars a bit to keep it to 3 years with a limited NTC, so it was an understandable give/take signing. There were no comparable's out there at the time.....and please don't mention Hiller as I think he played above his head many times last year and is not in the same class as Miller.

So do you want Miller for 3 years at $6M and coming off the books at age 36, or would you prefer him for 6 years at $5M and having him on the payroll until he is 39?

When I look at Benning's signings and moves, any of the vets he has acquired were initially brought in on short-term deals (Miller is the longest with 3 years). It seems to me that Benning took over this team with a plan that had an eye on 4 years down the road when the Sedins are gone and this team turns the page into a whole new chapter. He's not bogging his roster down with long-term contracts that tie up cap space in ageing and declining vets, and he knew full well that he was going to have to navigate some retarded NTC's that his predecessor handed out due to a lack of forward thinking.

He is making small moves that are bringing that next generation of players up into the NHL slowly so that he can meet ownership's mandate that this be a playoff team every year, but he's not sacrificing the future to do it.

Everything seems calculated, and there is a good mix of proactive and reactionary moves that are made. He was willing to go 3 years on Miller, but that was AFTER he had drafted Demko. He knew full well he had 3 young goaltenders, but none of them were ready to be a starter, and none of them had high trade value. So he brings in Miller, which gave Lack another year to develop as a backup (and he did a helluva job), and Markstrom a chance to be the guy in the AHL on a team where he actually had a goaltending coach to work with. Both of those guys have increased their stock from where it was a year ago, and you can bet that they would both have dropped value had the Canucks run with a one-two punch of Lack and Markstrom. He couldn't keep them both, so he positioned himself to be able to safely trade one of them and still have a proven starter who can carry the load and help bring the younger guy along for a couple of seasons and then (hopefully) hand the reigns over at around the time that Demko is ready to start developing in a back-up role. That's just one example.....

Sbisa is inexcusable though. Especially when you look at what is going to be available in the UFA market 9 days from now. The only way that Jimbo gets a pass on that is if Sbisa is a really late bloomer.
Last edited by Meds on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
Posts: 11189
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:25 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I think he had a pretty decent draft HW . Along with the 2013 draft it gives the team a bit of a building block moving forward . What's killing the Canucks is the drafting from 2005-2012.

My pet peeve with Benning is the contracts for Miller , Dorsett and Sbisa . Well that and the pissing away of draft picks for older prospects that can't cut it in other organizations. Hopefully that trend stops moving forward .
I don't get the hate for Dorsett. The big stage fighting gorilla goons are gone from the game now. Getting a tough player who can actually play a decent game with a great work ethic? There is value in that.

Sbisa, whatever, it's a short term contract to a young man in a D group with two of its top 4 D men well into their 30's and fading. At least it ain't Jeff Petry stupid money or what Turtle Franson will eventually be getting, plus there is no Mike Gillis NTC attached to Sbisa.

I can understand the Miller signing, going with Lack who had what 40 gsmes under his belt and Markstrom is a bit risky.

Love the Vrbata signing

Think we should give Vey a little more time as he was a rookie last year

Baerschi by all sccounts was brilliant in the Comets cup run. Creating that winning environment with your super important farm system is huge and a feather in Bennings cap. Red Wing GM Holland was asked by Strombolopolous recently what is key to developing and drafting, first thing out of Kens mouth "you need to bring the kids up in a culture of winning and have solid veteren leadership for the kids to learn from"
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

User avatar
Canuck-One
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:49 am
Location: Living the Life

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Canuck-One » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:56 am

Sbisa is 25 and entering the prime years as an NHL D. He has talent and heart so it will be up to the Canucks to bring the best out of him. Benning was a defenceman and his reputation was built on his eye for scouting talent. So before I dump all over him I'll give him another season to see if Benning's faith in him is justified. I don't see very much on the UFA market that jumps out as a great deal. So unless there is a remarkable trade where we get something for nothing I'll wait and see.

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 10036
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:00 am

I don't hate Dorsett Pacific Blue . I like his edge but I dont like the term for a guy who is a 4th line player . He was a non factor in the playoffs and I wonder how hungry he will be with 4 seasons at 2.65 guaranteed .
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
Posts: 11189
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:19 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I don't hate Dorsett Pacific Blue . I like his edge but I dont like the term for a guy who is a 4th line player . He was a non factor in the playoffs and I wonder how hungry he will be with 4 seasons at 2.65 guaranteed .
Dorsett looked gassed in the playoffs, I agree, as did a lot of Canucks. But the dude rarely took a shift off all season, maybe that was the problem. The Flames exposed our age and slowness in the playoffs, I wouldn't name Dorsett as part of the problem. Team needs to get younger, grittier and faster
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 12629
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Hockey Widow » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:37 am

Meds again find myself agreeing with everything you had to say. Well thought out post.

On Dorsett I too think three years would have been better and the cap a tad high but he brings value for it. In two years he will be our Higgins though. The player everyone wants traded. That said I'm glad Benning got the deal done.

Let's look at the draft picks he gave up:

3rd for Dorsett. Does anyone really have a problem with that?

Our second for Bart. Jury is out and will be until he has a season under his belt in the NHL. It was giving up a draft pick for a player drafted high in those years we sucked at the draft. Too early to judge.

A second from Tampa for Vey. I have mixed thoughts on this one. The pick will be what 59th? I see both sides. I don't really believe he fits here long term. I don't see a Stevie Sullivan or Ray Whitney upside here and Vey's game has to be offence. Hell if he could become a Brenden Morrison points guy I'd be thrilled. But BMo was great on F/O and killed penalties. I just don't see that in Vey and would be fine trading him to recover a pick. If not I guess we get to see if he makes the team or gets waived and go from there.

Clendening he got for Forsling, no pick
MacMillon he picked up on waivers, no loss

Not sure I missed any but to me I don't see a bad trend starting.
The only HW the Canucks need

User avatar
Island Nucklehead
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7846
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:47 pm

Vey was traded for the 50th pick last year. Garrison, Costello and a 2015 7th for the 50th overall, which we then traded for Vey.

Considering Baertschi went for the 53rd pick this year, I'm not sure we got good value for Vey. The story was he was caught in the numbers crunch of a potential dynasty team in LA and just needed a shot, and now he's caught in a numbers crunch in a playoff pretender in Vancouver and hasn't taken advantage of pretty-much gifted ice-time.

I'm hoping Benning can recoup a couple of those picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year. We really have no need for any more tweeners or maybe-NHL talent. There appears to be sufficient candidates on the farm deserving of a shot on the big club (Grenier, Gaunce, Baertschi, Corrado, Markstrom etc.), that we need to start re-stocking the cupboards at all levels, not just 1st rounders.

On the surface, Benning's trading of 2nd rounders for younger players looks like a decent idea, especially vs. acquiring veteran players. But if they can't stick in the NHL, it's just as much of a wasted pick.

I don't mind the Dorsett trade, but his extension is at least a 1 year too long (probably 2 years). The Sbisa deal is all kinds of horrid. Too long, too much, and there was no risk of him walking as a UFA (unlike Dorsett). There was no need to do that deal at that time. If Benning wanted to keep him, he should have simply qualified him, played hardball, made him sign a 1-year "show me" deal. I don't think any GM in the league would have given Sbisa that kind of contract as a UFA, there was no reason for us to give him that much as an RFA. If it works out, great, but the kid has shown next to nothing in 350+ NHL games to indicate he's a top-4 damn in waiting. His extension totally smacks of Benning turning this into a self-fulfilling prophecy that the guy is a top-4 dman, as he pretty much has to be now, given his contract status.

User avatar
Hockey Widow
CC Legend
Posts: 12629
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Hockey Widow » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:51 pm

The Dorsett trade was a year too high and a tad cap high. But that was the price for no type of NTC. Nada.

With Sbisa I think Benning is caught up in a "I got him so he must be good"world. I also think he tried real hard to trade for an upgrade on defence and found the asking price way too high and got a little spooked. Maybe not spooked but caught up in, " OMG Hamhuis and Bieksa have expiring contracts next year, if I re-sign Sbisa for one year I am dealing with three FA on the back end" type of thinking.

I mean he said as much. Realistically if he wants to re-sign either Hamhuis or Bieksa he should have no problem whatsoever, which leads me to believe he isn't convinced yet that he wants to. Which lead to this thinking of having 3 potential FA on the backend.

I think Topper said in another thread that players like Miller and Vrbata are place holders. I think Sbisa is too. He has three seasons, less since he has no NTC, to show he is top four. Those three years allow our youngsters to develop and for Benning to get more defence in the system.

I do agree though, horrible contract but one I understand the reasoning.
The only HW the Canucks need

User avatar
dangler
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:31 pm
Location: Commercial Drive Coffee shop

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by dangler » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:17 pm

Meds wrote: Sbisa is inexcusable though. Especially when you look at what is going to be available in the UFA market 9 days from now. The only way that Jimbo gets a pass on that is if Sbisa is a really late bloomer.

There won't be anything even close to the value the Canucks got in the Sbisa contract in the UFA market.

But hey, continue with Sbisa sheet soiling,seems to be a popular trend around here right now. After all wtf does Benning know?? all the experts are here.
Retool Rebuild

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 10036
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:58 pm

dangler wrote:
Meds wrote: Sbisa is inexcusable though. Especially when you look at what is going to be available in the UFA market 9 days from now. The only way that Jimbo gets a pass on that is if Sbisa is a really late bloomer.

There won't be anything even close to the value the Canucks got in the Sbisa contract in the UFA market.

But hey, continue with Sbisa sheet soiling,seems to be a popular trend around here right now. After all wtf does Benning know?? all the experts are here.
Or they could you know play Ryan Stanton for 1/4 of the price and see zero drop off and more likely an uptick in play . But whatevs right .
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Legend
Posts: 11189
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:11 pm

Blobby is a massive fan of "I got my ass whooped by Jordan Nolan" Stanton and his stone hands and head, Ballard and Ryan Clowe. Meat and Potato guys
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 10036
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: 2015 Draft Class watch

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:20 pm

Ryan Stanton at 750 k or Luca Sbisa at 3.6 million ? It's a coin toss as to who's a better player and they are about the same age . But why would one of them be worth 5 x the other one in salary? It makes no sense and its indefensible really . But according to the dude I love Stanton .
TELL ME HOW MY ASS TASTES

Locked