Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

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herb
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by herb »

From Demko's blog on CDC
But I think the rust is off, having to stop Bo Horvat’s shots has helped. He’s got a great shot, Jared McCann doesn’t, so you know. I close my eyes a lot of the time ;)
I was asked today if any skaters have stood out to me and it’s tough when I’m on the ice to notice, they’re all really great, but watching from the stands I can say Hunter Shinkaruk has skills. He has good hands and good speed and I can see why he’s a top prospect for sure. He brings a lot to the table.
Sounds like our top prospect's are standing out...that's good!
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ClamRussel »

Rayxor wrote:
Benjo wrote:The beauty of college prospects is that you can let them simmer there until they are ready, you don't even have to use up a contract slot or burn up their cheap entry level years. You can get a player who is done or near done developing and they are still on year 1 of their ELC.
The impression i got about him is that his defensive game needs work. As a converted forward, his offensive instincts are paying dividends but as a complete player, he may not even be ready for the AHL. At this point he still might need 3 full years in the minors, including stints at Kalamazoo.

He sounds like the kind of guy that is best left in college for the reasons you mentioned.

As with all prospects, view him with guarded optimism.
He also either played forward (or was positioned in the back door-same thing) on the pp which accounts for higher goal totals...sort of like Big Buff at times. It's not a negative but another reason to temper expectations & just let him develop accordingly.
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the Dogsalmon
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by the Dogsalmon »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote: Absolute piss poor drafting to be able to ice only one 18 years old in the last 26 years...
Considering the Canucks have the 13th (Linden) and 44th (Neely) highest scoring 18 year olds to ever play in the NHL, I'd say we're doing alright.

There's only been 263 18 year olds to ever play an NHL game, and only 129 have played more than 10, it hasn't been a common occurrence until recently.


If 263 have played and only 2 for Vancouver and there are 20-30 teams based over the last 20 or so years....you do the math...still piss poor drafting...
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Island Nucklehead
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Island Nucklehead »

the Dogsalmon wrote:If 263 have played and only 2 for Vancouver and there are 20-30 teams based over the last 20 or so years....you do the math...still piss poor drafting...
Michel Petit played 2 games as an 18 year old... does his inclusion on the list make you feel slightly better about our drafting history? Maybe there's better ways to qualify our draft record than how many 18 year olds have dressed.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ESQ »

Rayxor wrote:Didn't Nedved make the team as an 18 year old? He only played one year of Junior in the WHL and that was the year he was drafted.
That is true, I thought I was forgetting someone!
the Dogsalmon wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote: Absolute piss poor drafting to be able to ice only one 18 years old in the last 26 years...
Considering the Canucks have the 13th (Linden) and 44th (Neely) highest scoring 18 year olds to ever play in the NHL, I'd say we're doing alright.

There's only been 263 18 year olds to ever play an NHL game, and only 129 have played more than 10, it hasn't been a common occurrence until recently.
I raised the point about 18-year-olds cracking the roster not as an indictment of the team's drafting, but rather as an example of the Canucks' development process.

I think everyone would agree that the Canucks have been extremely cautious with their prospects, and there's been a preference to keep players down either in Junior, the AHL, or NCAA for as long as possible, eventually earning a call-up position before cracking the club.

Many would call this the "Detroit Model" of development. I personally don't think the Detroit Model is something to strive towards, as Detroit's drafting/development record is heavily skewed by outlying fluke picks that have contributed to the team's success for 3 decades - Lidstrom in the 3rd round, Zetterberg in the 7th round, and Datsyuk in the 6th round. Excluding those 3 players, Detroit's drafting/developing has been about on par with the Canucks' for the past 10 years, which is to say - not good.

The danger of trial by fire for prospects is the "Gilbert Brule syndrome", where somehow a young star-in-the-making is ruined by being pushed along too quickly. The other danger is wasting ELC years (we'll call this the Coilers Syndrome).

Sure, it is a bit of a gamble to put young kids in an NHL lineup. But the upside has been huge for several Championship teams in the past decade - really every Cup winner except Detroit and Boston was anchored by young stars who broke into the league as teenagers.

I'm not saying that BoHo will become Jonathan Toews if he makes the Club this year, but I think the potential benefits outweigh the risks, and what the Canucks have been doing for the last 20 years hasn't really worked out all that well anyways.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Rumsfeld »

If Hutton can pan out into a second-pairing NHL blueliner it would be huge for this organization.

Still a long way from that happening but he seems like a terrific 5th round pick so far.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Meds »

the Dogsalmon wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote: Absolute piss poor drafting to be able to ice only one 18 years old in the last 26 years...
Considering the Canucks have the 13th (Linden) and 44th (Neely) highest scoring 18 year olds to ever play in the NHL, I'd say we're doing alright.

There's only been 263 18 year olds to ever play an NHL game, and only 129 have played more than 10, it hasn't been a common occurrence until recently.


If 263 have played and only 2 for Vancouver and there are 20-30 teams based over the last 20 or so years....you do the math...still piss poor drafting...
I blame Bettman.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ClamRussel »

ESQ wrote:
Rayxor wrote:Didn't Nedved make the team as an 18 year old? He only played one year of Junior in the WHL and that was the year he was drafted.
That is true, I thought I was forgetting someone!
Nedved was 19.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Meds »

ESQ wrote: I raised the point about 18-year-olds cracking the roster not as an indictment of the team's drafting, but rather as an example of the Canucks' development process.

I think everyone would agree that the Canucks have been extremely cautious with their prospects, and there's been a preference to keep players down either in Junior, the AHL, or NCAA for as long as possible, eventually earning a call-up position before cracking the club.

Many would call this the "Detroit Model" of development. I personally don't think the Detroit Model is something to strive towards, as Detroit's drafting/development record is heavily skewed by outlying fluke picks that have contributed to the team's success for 3 decades - Lidstrom in the 3rd round, Zetterberg in the 7th round, and Datsyuk in the 6th round. Excluding those 3 players, Detroit's drafting/developing has been about on par with the Canucks' for the past 10 years, which is to say - not good.
Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Johan Franzen, and Darren Helm, would all like to say hello. I'm sure there are others, but those 4 came to mind right away.

I'm not saying that Detroit hasn't won the lottery in the later rounds, those 3 names are amazing talents, and I agree that when a team picks future stars that late in the draft they are obviously fluking out because they passed on the player multiple times before finally selecting him, so clearly they didn't know how good said player was actually going to be. Regardless, Detroit has proven to be very good at developing their prospects so that when they land in the NHL with the big club, they are hitting the ice at stride.
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the Dogsalmon
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by the Dogsalmon »

Meds wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote: Absolute piss poor drafting to be able to ice only one 18 years old in the last 26 years...
Considering the Canucks have the 13th (Linden) and 44th (Neely) highest scoring 18 year olds to ever play in the NHL, I'd say we're doing alright.

There's only been 263 18 year olds to ever play an NHL game, and only 129 have played more than 10, it hasn't been a common occurrence until recently.


If 263 have played and only 2 for Vancouver and there are 20-30 teams based over the last 20 or so years....you do the math...still piss poor drafting...
I blame Bettman.

i'm in...
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Doyle Hargraves »

ClamRussel wrote:
ESQ wrote:
Rayxor wrote:Didn't Nedved make the team as an 18 year old? He only played one year of Junior in the WHL and that was the year he was drafted.
That is true, I thought I was forgetting someone!
Nedved was 19.
Nedveds birthday is December 9th 1971 . He was 18 to start the year
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ClamRussel »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
ESQ wrote:
Rayxor wrote:Didn't Nedved make the team as an 18 year old? He only played one year of Junior in the WHL and that was the year he was drafted.
That is true, I thought I was forgetting someone!
Nedved was 19.
Nedveds birthday is December 9th 1971 . He was 18 to start the year
Ah, right. Guess I should've checked...well he was an old 18, I did remember him having a late bday. Well, he never should have made the team that year anyways. I remember Oates tossing him aside like a rag doll after a draw & calling him a "joke" after the game to the media.
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ESQ »

Meds wrote:Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Johan Franzen, and Darren Helm, would all like to say hello. I'm sure there are others, but those 4 came to mind right away.
You only forgot Brendan Smith, Joakim Andersson, Abdelkader and Kindl - So in 10 years they drafted most of their bottom two lines, their bottom defensive pairing, and Franzen.

I'd say that's comparable to the Canucks over the same period, who drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Bourdon, Raymond, Grabner, Hodgson, and Connauton.

I can't think of many teams with worse drafting records over the past ten years...Calgary, Minnesota, Tampa Bay (have really only turned Stamkos and Hedman into NHLers), CBJ and Nashville are about comparable...
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by ClamRussel »

Perhaps a potential signing here for the system:
http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/07/11 ... -forwards/
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Re: Canucks Development Camp Starts Tomorrow

Post by Diehard1 »

ESQ wrote:
Meds wrote:Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar, Johan Franzen, and Darren Helm, would all like to say hello. I'm sure there are others, but those 4 came to mind right away.
You only forgot Brendan Smith, Joakim Andersson, Abdelkader and Kindl - So in 10 years they drafted most of their bottom two lines, their bottom defensive pairing, and Franzen.

I'd say that's comparable to the Canucks over the same period, who drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Bourdon, Raymond, Grabner, Hodgson, and Connauton.

I can't think of many teams with worse drafting records over the past ten years...Calgary, Minnesota, Tampa Bay (have really only turned Stamkos and Hedman into NHLers), CBJ and Nashville are about comparable...
No idea why Detroit gets so much love for their prospect development - they haven't produced a top player since zetterberg and that was years ago. Franzen came to them as a 25 year old so they didn't develop him. Helm is an average 3rd line center. Nyquist has a very good 50 games under his belt but is already 24, while Jurco, Sheahan and Tatar have proven nothing so far. They've been below average in producing NHL players yet people talk like they are the franchise to model.

A few of the guys they have right now could be good but they've got a long way to go. Teams like Anaheim, St. Louis, Boston, Tampa bay have all been much better over the past 10 years.
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